I am totally new to inline muzzleloaders, just picked a CVA Optima V2 in Realtree camo and included and mounted 3X9 scope for $199.00 at Walmart. I picked up some primers, bullets and other assorted items as well since all was on post season closeout. But my question, the first of many I am sure is I have a Marlin .45-70 I load 405 grain HCL bullets. I was wondering, can I use my Missouri Bullet Company 405 grain HCL bullets (for large buffalo) with a sabot and two 50 grain Pyrodex pills? And what sabot would be suggested? Help!!!!!!!! BTW, I did get some muzzleloader bullets with built in gas seals to start out with. But I have hundreds of the .45 caliber 405 grain MBC Large Buffalo bullets.
Optima V2 and 45 caliber bullets
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robhof
Member
Yes, I'm not sure of the twist rate of the Optima, I believe it's a fast twist, which is best for sabot rounds, I've got a fast twist barrel for my T/C Hawkins and I regularly shoot my 255 gr. cast 45's out of it for practice, as for type of sabot, I use what I can find, even buying many from Ebay, I have found little difference in accuracy over several brands, there is some difference in loading difficulty with some, You'll have to try different ones to see what loads and shoots best in your gun though, each gun is different as to what it likes/shoots best.
Well, I am impressed with the little Optima V2 rifle. The workmanship is decent and clean and the synthetic stock fits tightly. The camo pattern is attractive and I suppose useful. I have a Kentucky long rifle I built from a quality kit 40 years ago and hunted with it some. Took a few deer and pigs. But it is retired now.
I will need to get some iron sights for the Optima and the Black Horn breech plug and the "western" legal plug as well. But for $199 with what appears to be a very nice, bright 3X9 scope I will take it and run. I do not think the scope is up to once in a lifetime duty but for hunting around my small acres and nearby farms it will be completely fine, maybe better than fine.
I do not want to overpressure with 405 grain HCL MBC Large Buffalo bullets? Anyone shoot such such bullets in a CVA? Like I said, I thought to use two of the 50 grain pellets or the equivalent Black Horn powder.
I will need to get some iron sights for the Optima and the Black Horn breech plug and the "western" legal plug as well. But for $199 with what appears to be a very nice, bright 3X9 scope I will take it and run. I do not think the scope is up to once in a lifetime duty but for hunting around my small acres and nearby farms it will be completely fine, maybe better than fine.
I do not want to overpressure with 405 grain HCL MBC Large Buffalo bullets? Anyone shoot such such bullets in a CVA? Like I said, I thought to use two of the 50 grain pellets or the equivalent Black Horn powder.
IIRC my book that came with my Optima and my Wolf both state something about bullets over 400 grains not being recommended. You might check your owners manual.
i'm planning on using 370 grain maxi and similar weight REALs in my Wolf with real black. (I got the Blackhorn plug for both.
i'm planning on using 370 grain maxi and similar weight REALs in my Wolf with real black. (I got the Blackhorn plug for both.
arcticap
Member
If your .45-70 bullets are .458 diameter, then you need to use the MMP orange sabots for use with .457 - .458 bullets. --->>> https://mmpsabots.com/store/orange-hph-sabot50-pcs/
https://mmpsabots.com/store/hph-sabot-series/
I will, thank you, just beginning to read the materials and study up.
I could take some of my 405 grain bullets and chuck them in a fixture and drill out 55 grains from the rear easy enough. My fixture would, once I got the depth and diameter down, be fixed so I could always make exactly the same bullet. Or maybe buy a Lee mold and cast my own.I hate working with lead (as in melting, casting, pouring etc.) too much exposure from my career and other foolishness as it is.
arcticap
Member
To be honest, I wouldn't expect a 405 grain .45 bullet to be super accurate in a ML to begin with.
It's sort of a long heavy bullet and sabots have their limitations.
But it would be fun to try since you never know how well the long heavyweight bullets will shoot.
You may be right. But it is just that I have a ton of them. And, just saying, they put the smack on pigs as if the anvil of God came down on them from my Marlin Guide Gun but indeed that is a different beast than the CVA.
I have, over the past sixty-five years of shooting and reloading made many "inappropriate" bullets work. From 45 maxi balls in 45 Colt and 45-70, 575 minies in 20 gauge, and dozens of other wierd matchups. 375 grain 45-70 in 410 brass hulls in 45 Colt/410 Contender.
I say go carefully and have fun. I've gotten some good groups from a 50 inline and saboted 45 bulets. Sabots are available.
I say go carefully and have fun. I've gotten some good groups from a 50 inline and saboted 45 bulets. Sabots are available.
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Loyalist Dave
Member
DON'T do that, please.
You're new to inline muzzle loading. Your CVA is a 1:28 twist rate. The .45-70 Government cartridge with a 405 grain projectile was meant to shoot well from a 1:22 twist rate rifle. So your twist rate in the CVA should be close enough.
Pressure will be a function of the amount of powder used + the weight of the projectile vs. the diameter of the chamber. So IF you are worried about the pressure from a 405 grain projectile, then simply don't use 100 grains of powder.
You could get Triple 7 pellets, in 30 grain size, and shoot two of those for a 60 grain load, which will be fine for deer with that 405 bullet. Your load is then 10 grains of powder under the load for the cartridge. No worries. https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/hodgdon-triple-seven-30-grain-pellets-50-30-powder.html
BUT you already have the 50 grain pellets, so you should try shooting just ONE of those, and if they are accurate and your state does not specify a minimum powder load, you can use one of those. Should still be fine for deer out to 100 yards.
IF you think that's too little powder, or you want the option of going past 100 yards, then the BEST idea would be to use the loose Pyrodex or Tripple 7 and a powder measure set at 70 grains and thus duplicate the .45-70 load. You would then use the 50 grain pellets for target shooting at the range. IF you simply cannot do without using the 50 grain pellets in the field, then do what folks used to do when the only pellets on the market were the 50 grain type, but shooters and hunters found their rifles were more accurate with a slightly higher amount of powder. You load a pellet, followed by 20 grains of loose Pyrodex or Triple 7, and again you have a 70 grain load.
Another option is to load a 50 grain pellet followed by a 30 grain pellet for an 80 grain load, which gives you the convenience of pre-measured pellets, but doesn't stress your rifle or your shoulder as a 100 grain load would. My suggestion is to use the pellets for target shooting, and to use loose powder and a measure and to tailor your load for accuracy.
LD
Is there a Lee mold bullet then that works well or some other hard cast lead bullet I can order and use with a sabot? I suppose it best not to dip into my .45-70 ammo fixings anyways given the scarcity of supplies at the moment.
I have a bunch of Triple 7 pellets bought at closeout price, basically free. I also got four cans of Black Horn (half price) and just ordered on Amazon for under $30 the Black Horn breech plug. But I bought 500 Federal Premium 209 primers (for $25) which I understand are not recommended for Black Horn powder so I will be shooting that up before switching to the Black Horn.
I also went back to Walmart and picked up a CVA Wolf stainless with Konus scope mounted and bore sighted in the black synthetic stock for $99. Crazy. So I got a stainless Optima V2 in Realtree camo with a nice looking and (nice working) Konus scope for $199 and then the Wolf. I am just going to put the Wolf back in it's box and save it for a rainy day or trade fodder or maybe shoot it but first thing is to get the Optima sighted in and figured out.
I would wish for CVA to build an Optima centerfire rifle for .44 Magnum or .45LC/.454C. The quality of these rifles is very nice, it is an attractive rifle. I am very much attracted for some reason to wanting a nice CF break barrel rifle.
I have a bunch of Triple 7 pellets bought at closeout price, basically free. I also got four cans of Black Horn (half price) and just ordered on Amazon for under $30 the Black Horn breech plug. But I bought 500 Federal Premium 209 primers (for $25) which I understand are not recommended for Black Horn powder so I will be shooting that up before switching to the Black Horn.
I also went back to Walmart and picked up a CVA Wolf stainless with Konus scope mounted and bore sighted in the black synthetic stock for $99. Crazy. So I got a stainless Optima V2 in Realtree camo with a nice looking and (nice working) Konus scope for $199 and then the Wolf. I am just going to put the Wolf back in it's box and save it for a rainy day or trade fodder or maybe shoot it but first thing is to get the Optima sighted in and figured out.
I would wish for CVA to build an Optima centerfire rifle for .44 Magnum or .45LC/.454C. The quality of these rifles is very nice, it is an attractive rifle. I am very much attracted for some reason to wanting a nice CF break barrel rifle.
Shooting some Smackdown Carnivore Sabot 250 grain bullets and two pills of 777 I found the Optima V2 to be sighted in about 4 inches low at 50 yards and on center. It shot real close to MOA, a cloverleaf, first three shots. I moved out to 100 yards and sent three more downrange with similar results. Pulled the scope up 10 clicks and then nailed my steel four times dead center at 100 yards. I am going to call it good for 100 yards. Ten rounds through the tube, MOA of my fist at 100 yards.
My rifles, $179 and $99:
My rifles, $179 and $99:
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