It Finally Came 1885 Sheriffs Model

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ThomasT

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A while back I started a thread on the 1858 Sheriffs model I was trying to buy from Cabelas. Arcticap told me they had them in stock at the Cabelas near him in Hartford CT. So after several phone calls to the Cabelas near me if Ft Worth they had one shipped to me. They called this morning and said it had arrived so I drove the 30 miles to pick it up.

You now have to fill out paperwork almost like buying a smokeless powder gun. But at least they didn't call it in. And the real kicker was the guy that handled my transaction asked why I had this one shipped when they had two in stock at the store.:fire:

So I explained to him they are not listed on the website and that I had called the store twice asking about them. A correct answer and an updated website would have saved us all a lot of trouble.

Anyway here are a couple of pictures on a dark, rainy day. You guys know what they look like. And this gun has a dried oil finish that almost looks like varnish. I hope its not as hard to remove as Cosmoline.

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If you look at my Sig Line I consider these to be the Model 10 of the black powder revolver world.
 
I cleaned the gun on the outside with mineral spirits. That seemed to of removed the varnish like glaze it had on it. I cleaned the nipples and greased the threads with anti seize grease. Then I found my first two problems. First I cannot with any reasonable effort remover the grip screw. I have hollow ground screwdrivers but the screw acts like it has thread locker on it. And second and worse the charge holes measure .447. I tried ramming one of the new balls I cast yesterday that measure .453 and I can get them almost all the way in but then they stop. So I guess job one is to buy a reamer and ream the charge holes.

Don't you just love buying a new gun and then first thing is having to work on it?:cuss:
 
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Oh my goodness, tell me this is not possible.
Are you sure that the chambers are that small?
They should be somewhere between .445, .446, .449 so that .451 balls will fit.
That's a serious enough defect to be able to exchange the cylinder if you explain it and show them.
They owe it to you.
Please don't touch anything until you explain to a manager how much effort that you went through to get the gun.
I would be very disappointed if they don't take care of you.
If Cabela's doesn't, I would call EMF Firearms which is the master distributor that's owned by the Pietta family and ask them if they can replace the cylinder for you.
Either way, you deserve a new cylinder that's free from defects or the gun isn't fit to shoot out of the box.
This is one of those exceptions that demands a proper response from either Cabela's or Pietta.
And EMF represents Pietta in the USA.--->>> https://www.emf-company.com
 
At this point I'm not happy with my new purchase. I have been doing some google research on what it would take to open the cylinder chambers to proper dimensions. Mainly more money. Money for a gunsmith or to buy or rent a reamer to open the cylinder charge holes. I am thinking I may just return the gun and forget it. I don't understand this? There is no mystery as to what sizes are needed for a proper bullet to cylinder to barrel fit.

This is right up there with the mods needed to the Uberti Colt revolvers so the cylinder base pin is long enough to fit the barrel.
 
Articap I found another site that listed Pietta numbers for guns made for Dixie Gun Works and all the cylinder dimensions were undersized. So at this point I am stopping on the gun. I will be back in that area tomorrow and may just return the gun.
 
Did you cast balls using wheel weight lead?
I can understand if casting with a harder lead alloy that the balls will be slightly oversized and tougher to ram.
But that doesn't explain undersized chambers.
Some folks use .454 balls.
Maybe they just received a bad batch of post-covid production guns.
If you go back to your Cabela's, ask to measure some chambers on the other guns they have.
They should be cooperative if they want to keep you as a customer.
I know it's a hassel, and if the gun needs to go back, then it goes back.
I don't blame you at all, it's a defect.
Reaming chambers is a major issue.
 
The balls I cast were from dead soft lead that came from shower pan lead. I have been casting a long time (30+ years) and have WW lead, soft lead for BP use and a little over 40 pounds Linotype lead I got the from printers plate. The balls measure .4538 from a brand new Lee mould (.454) and were some of the most consistently round balls I have ever cast. They are easily marked with a thumbnail.

Read post #8 and see what chamber dimensions this poster listed for Pietta 1858 guns. As you can see they are way undersized and have been for a while.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/1858-throat-and-barrel-size-reaming-questions.107297/

The only gun listed that came close to having proper dimensions was the next to last listed, the Shooters revolver with a .456 groove and a .456 chamber. All the rest had undersized chambers for the bore.

Looking at the paperwork that came with the gun Pietta recommends a .454 diameter ball for this gun.
 
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I wasn't sure if your chambers actually measured .438 as stated or .448 if it was a typo.
But one thing to consider is that the ball can obturate when it's fired.
That means it may become larger after it exits the chamber and passes into the barrel.
And Pietta may recommend using the .454 ball because it will help to increase pressure, velocity and possibly obturation.

The sheriff's model wasn't intended to rival a target gun, but is made to be more handy like a carry gun.
In a recent thread about the shooter's model, it was mentioned that some need over a .460 ball.
Which Lee doesn't make a .460 RB mold, and the .457 would be too small.

A 5.5" inch Ruger Old Army would probably have better tolerances if the sheriff's barrel length is really wanted.
But those are almost as pricey as a shooter's model at $1000.
The discontinued Euroarms Rogers & Spencer have a fine reputation for accuracy, but their prices have climbed up to $500+ with very few spare parts available.
The target .44 Remingtons all have 8" barrels.
Maybe you'd like an Uberti Remington better, or a .36 with a 6.5" barrel would be another option.

Compared to the originals which were basically intended for combat, the reproductions generally have tighter tolerances and are much more accurate.
 
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Maybe the fastest and least expensive way to get to shoot it is to buy another cylinder. Maybe find a used one off of ebay. Or a new one?

Then see what can be done with the one you have.

Maybe a chamber hone? I've used a hone to open up and smooth the throats on a couple of 44WCF.
 
At least your Cabela's has a couple more for you to exchange with it. See what they have. I got my sheriff with the intention of putting a conversion cylinder in it. The Howell cylinder chambers are much more in proper dimension with the barrel.
 
If the chambers actually mic that small (are you using pin gauges or are you using digital calipers?) I’d contact Cabelas and see if you can swap it for one of the other two in stock. They say they don’t accept returns on firearms but they might let you swap them. They did for me when I ordered a Uberti Walker and it was out of time. But I examined and swapped them the day I picked up the gun. Hope you can get it worked out.
 
I wasn't sure if your chambers actually measured .438 as stated or .448 if it was a typo.
But one thing to consider is that the ball can obturate when it's fired.
That means it may become larger after it exits the chamber and passes into the barrel.
And Pietta may recommend using the .454 ball because it will help to increase pressure, velocity and possibly obturation.

Yep typo. After careful measurement I seem to have .447 chambers. Not .438. Sorry about that. So right now I am not sure what am going to do. I put a
.451 ball mold on my notify me list at Midway. And yes I know that BP balls and bullets will bump up to fit. In the meantime I may just buy a box of .451 balls and try those.
 
Mine loads and shoots great with Hornady .454s FWIW. Obviously there's a little more effort with the shorter loading lever. Do you have a means of extending that leverage with a slix-hand or something? I bet they'll go in and shoot fine if you can seat them.

Here's a video of mine if interested. Love the pistol!

 
Yep typo. After careful measurement I seem to have .447 chambers. Not .438. Sorry about that. So right now I am not sure what am going to do. I put a
.451 ball mold on my notify me list at Midway. And yes I know that BP balls and bullets will bump up to fit. In the meantime I may just buy a box of .451 balls and try those.

RMC makes an inexpensive loading press which helps to take advantage of the easy cylinder removal of the Remington. --->>> https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/rmc-revolver-loading-stand/
And after firing 2-4 cylinders a person needs to lube the cylinder pin anyway which loading off the frame makes that easier too.
There's sturdier loading presses that cost upwards of $100 sold at Powder, Inc., and also Dick Dastardly's "Tower of Power Loading Press."
By using a loading press, you shouldn't have any problem loading your cast balls and keeping the cylinder pin lubed.

http://www.biglube.com

https://powderinc.com/product-category/cylinder-loader/
 
In the last 2 years I've bought four 1858 Remingtons [ Piettas ] and either the 451 or 454 seem to load just fine. Maybe I got lucky but it sounds like yours should load OK. Nice shooting. I can remember when I was 40 years younger I could shoot groups like that at 25 yards off hand. Sure couldn't now without a lot of practice.
 
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Mine loads and shoots great with Hornady .454s FWIW. Obviously there's a little more effort with the shorter loading lever. Do you have a means of extending that leverage with a slix-hand or something? I bet they'll go in and shoot fine if you can seat them.

Here's a video of mine if interested. Love the pistol!



I will probably just get a short piece of copper pipe for a little more leverage. Great video also. I'm glad to see it was shooting just a tad low. Low is easy to fix. Shooting high, not so much. And are you shooting in your basement? If you are you're a lucky dog.:thumbup:

RMC makes an inexpensive loading press which helps to take advantage of the easy cylinder removal of the Remington. --->>> https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/rmc-revolver-loading-stand/
And after firing 2-4 cylinders a person needs to lube the cylinder pin anyway which loading off the frame makes that easier too.
There's sturdier loading presses that cost upwards of $100 sold at Powder, Inc., and also Dick Dastardly's "Tower of Power Loading Press."
By using a loading press, you shouldn't have any problem loading your cast balls and keeping the cylinder pin lubed.

http://www.biglube.com

https://powderinc.com/product-category/cylinder-loader/

I have seen those loaders before. I will get a lever extension and try some different size balls. I will either get a .451 mold or buy a couple of boxes of .451 Hornady balls. My bud has a couple of Colts and I think he uses .454 balls so he may get gifted 350 brand new balls.

And just for grins since you asked if my lead balls were pure lead I did the math formula for determining how close to pure your lead balls are. I just used .454 for the ball size instead of the actual .4538 of my balls. The .454 is close enough for me. At .454 the balls should weigh 140.7grs if made of pure lead. My balls weigh 138.7 to 139.2grs. So I would say my balls are about as close to pure lead as I am going to get.

If anyone wants the formula for finding out what a pure lead ball should weigh let me know and I will post it.
 
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