CMP 1911 report

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plodder

plodder

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I noted on another thread that I would submit a report on my recently acquired CMP 1911 upon its receipt. I selected the "Service Grade" when they called & told me my number had come up (they gave me the choice of all 3 grades). Although I vaguely remembered putting in the paperwork for it, it had been so long ago that I just assumed they had run out of inventory before it was my turn.

From my initial and brief research, she turns out to be a Remington-Rand class of 1945 (Serial#2217xxx) with a recently replaced slide with a "TZ" stamped on RH side. The frame has "FHA" stamped just under the slide lock.

Overall it appears to be in outstanding condition and as I have experienced in my several previous purchases of Garands from the CMP, the actual condition of the item exceeds their claims and my expectations. Trigger seems a bit heavy (maybe 7-8 lbs) but about what you'd expect for government work. Some slight wear in the upper palm contact area of the RH grip checkering. Miraculously, no "idiot" mark under the slide lock!

At $1050.00 probably not what you'd call a screaming bargain, but I've spent more and been disappointed. It was a bummer to have to pay my county's confiscatory sales tax at transfer though:mad:. As mentioned on the other thread, I have other 1911s for specific purposes, but I did not previously have a 1911 with "character". Now I can dream that this pistol was carried ashore by a young officer while storming a beach in the closing months of the Pacific campaign. (well, maybe at Inchon during the Korean war then:))
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Here is what you receive from CMP
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plodder said:
I did not previously have a 1911 with "character". Now I can dream that this pistol was carried ashore by a young officer while storming a beach in the closing months of the Pacific campaign. (well, maybe at Inchon during the Korean war then:))
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To my knowledge, the WWII era was the last production run of 1911A1s for the US military. It is completely plausible that, in addition to seeing use in the Pacific War and Korea, that it may have also seen use in Vietnam or any of the smaller actions (Grenada, Panama, etc.)
 
I love mine, and I don’t think the price is out of line. Mine was made in March, 1944. A Colt with a replacement Colt barrel. Whether it stormed the beaches of Normandy or not, it hung on the hips of countless GI’s for 30 years until it was overhauled and put away, ready to be put back into service. No Brazillion knock-off can compare.
 
How difficult would it be to find a proper Remington-Rand marked slide? That would make all the difference in the world regarding collectability. What you have is a (very) postwar generic replacement slide.
 
My Grandfather worked for Remington Rand. I don't work too far from the location of the plant that made them.
 
Slides are available but getting way more expensive. There is some trading as folks try to match up parts on the CMP 1911 Forum etc.. I'm more than happy with my RR frame and Colt replacement slide.
 
AlexanderA said:
How difficult would it be to find a proper Remington-Rand marked slide? That would make all the difference in the world regarding collectability. What you have is a (very) postwar generic replacement slide.
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That's a good question. I wouldn't mind having a "correct" slide for the old girl. Now you have triggered a previously unplannded quest and additional opportunity to squander time & money. Thanks a lot! :)

I did have time to take it out to the BLM land down the street today and cycle it through 4-5 magazine loads. Worked perfectly and other than the aforementioned heavy trigger, it shoots as well or better than me.
 
Nice looking pistol!

I decided not to enter for the second 1911 CMP drawing - I've seen some wonderful 1911s coming out of CMP, but also some that I just would not be happy about for that price point. The replacement slide possibility was a bugaboo for me (let's just say that my luck of the draw is not always stellar).

But I'm really glad that you received a fine looking 1911. That frame might well have been anywhere from the last days of the Pacific War, occupied Germany or Japan, to Korea, Vietnam, or hanging out in West Germany. But the TZ slide is well after WW2. TZ is sourced from an Israeli manufacturer under DoD contract (I think the production run was 1970s/1980s, but I might be off on that).
 
wojownik said:
Nice looking pistol!

I decided not to enter for the second 1911 CMP drawing - I've seen some wonderful 1911s coming out of CMP, but also some that I just would not be happy about for that price point. The replacement slide possibility was a bugaboo for me (let's just say that my luck of the draw is not always stellar).

But I'm really glad that you received a fine looking 1911. That frame might well have been anywhere from the last days of the Pacific War, occupied Germany or Japan, to Korea, Vietnam, or hanging out in West Germany. But the TZ slide is well after WW2. TZ is sourced from an Israeli manufacturer under DoD contract (I think the production run was 1970s/1980s, but I might be off on that).
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That's my problem too. I've seen three that I wouldn't have given half-money for and the crap-shoot is already stacked against you with the parsing off of *auction* guns.

Todd.
 
The CMP gun I received yesterday is a service grade Ithaca frame (1943) with Colt slide, excellent condition, no wear visible under the parkerizing which is dark gray. Parkerizing also shows no wear. The slide shows the heat treat discoloration for the muzzle 2", and a spot around the slide stop.

Looks wise it's very similar to those pictured.

The barrel feed ramp cut is in the wrong place - bottom at 4:30, rather than 6:00 as it should be. Go figure. Barrel is marked ‘Colt 45 Auto’ in small type on top of the hood and looks new inside and out, rifling and bore sharp and smooth. Rough machining on lower lugs.

Slide offsets to left side somewhat, not enough to rub, I’ve seen this on many guns.

No lube anywhere on pistol, it was squeaking clean and no sign it had been fired except perhaps a very few by CMP, they say they test fire each pistol before it's shipped..

I lubed it and shot it.

Shooting was fun. Function was perfect despite the cockeyed ramp, using only standard ball ammo. Accuracy was much better than I expected and hitting the 18” plate at 80 yards was easier than I thought it would be. I didn’t bother with the included Megar magazine, used a tested Checkmate instead.

The short GI trigger is very heavy, 11# but clean.

Fired about 60 shots. I had a few WCC 78 Match ball shells left and this seemed a good time, so I fired those and clocked them - Avg Vel was 832, Sd 11.08, the box said 'Velocity 820'. Not bad for 43 year old ammo.

Overall very pleased, I won’t shoot it much but it’s sure worth taking out now and then.

Are they worth it? Maybe. I'm glad I have mine, although I won't be surprised to see the price fall as CMP continues to sell the guns. I don't know how many they'll eventually sell but it's at least many thousands. If that should happen it may be a good idea to grab another one.
 
I carried a Remington Rand on first tour VN 1968-69 and an Ithaca in 1970-71 . Always knew it would shoot, and yes I checked ! I was a first issued 3 magazines at Camp Eagle HHC , but got 5 more before deploying to the field. I had to empty one mag into an enemy in the Ashau Valley in 1969 ! In 1970 I drew 11 mags from the get go !
 
ApacheCoTodd said:
That's my problem too. I've seen three that I wouldn't have given half-money for and the crap-shoot is already stacked against you with the parsing off of *auction* guns.

Todd.
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Not being thrilled at a replacement slide is one thing, but a genuine GI 1911 is worth WAY more than $525. That doesn't even get you some Brazilian of Filipino knock-off. You think $1050 is high for these? I don't. But they're surely worth more than half that.

People aren't buying these to shoot very often. They're buying them for the history. And replacement slide or not, these guns are the real deal and hung from the hips of real servicemen serving their country all over the world.
 
Homerboy said:
Not being thrilled at a replacement slide is one thing, but a genuine GI 1911 is worth WAY more than $525. That doesn't even get you some Brazilian of Filipino knock-off. You think $1050 is high for these? I don't. But they're surely worth more than half that.

People aren't buying these to shoot very often. They're buying them for the history. And replacement slide or not, these guns are the real deal and hung from the hips of real servicemen serving their country all over the world.
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Details.....

"... I've seen three that I wouldn't have given half-money for..."

Todd.
 
Homerboy said:
i read the post. There’s not one actual CMP 1911 that isn’t worth $525. Even a rack grade. The provenance alone is worth $525 if it’s functional and they all are.
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Matter of opinion. I was offered three with paperwork three separate occasions at the Antique-Arms-Vegas show and wouldn't have given 500 for ANY of the three. Not even for parts.

G.I. rack guns my ass. Some may be but some are steaming piles of warmed over - and badly - parts.

Todd.
 
ApacheCoTodd said:
Matter of opinion. I was offered three with paperwork three separate occasions at the Antique-Arms-Vegas show and wouldn't have given 500 for ANY of the three. Not even for parts.

G.I. rack guns my ass. Some may be but some are steaming piles of warmed over - and badly - parts.

Todd.
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if you say so. The thousands of people who have been waiting for well over 2 years at this point to get one disagree. I’ve never heard of the CMP selling junk and the multiple purchases I have made have all been great. My one big regret is not getting in on the M1 Carbine lottery years ago. $700 for a military carbine will never happen again.
 
Homerboy said:
if you say so. The thousands of people who have been waiting for well over 2 years at this point to get one disagree. I’ve never heard of the CMP selling junk and the multiple purchases I have made have all been great. My one big regret is not getting in on the M1 Carbine lottery years ago. $700 for a military carbine will never happen again.
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"If you say so....."

Yeah, in point of fact, I do say so. I know most folk have been wildly happy with theirs and I am happy for them but to have some poor schmucks try to get what they had into one and no one at the show would rise anywhere near the price is to say that a couple hundred "said so" as well.

How do I know this? Karen sets me up essentially at the entrance so I am seeing them on the way in and on the way out and since I see them on the way in, they have the entire show after me to try to do better if I do not buy an item. I usually ask them to stop on the way out and see if my priorities or cash flow might have changed my mind.

All three of those 1911s had passed through the entire show with no bites, though each was taking significantly less than paid by the end, and went on out the door.

Now, you can continue to take my example of those three as being why the risk isn't worth it to me - and continue to interpret it as an indictment on DCM - or you can actually pay attention to why I find no excitement in the operation anymore.

Todd.
 
ApacheCoTodd said:
"If you say so....."

Yeah, in point of fact, I do say so. I know most folk have been wildly happy with theirs and I am happy for them but to have some poor schmucks try to get what they had into one and no one at the show would rise anywhere near the price is to say that a couple hundred "said so" as well.

How do I know this? Karen sets me up essentially at the entrance so I am seeing them on the way in and on the way out and since I see them on the way in, they have the entire show after me to try to do better if I do not buy an item. I usually ask them to stop on the way out and see if my priorities or cash flow might have changed my mind.

All three of those 1911s had passed through the entire show with no bites, though each was taking significantly less than paid by the end, and went on out the door.

Now, you can continue to take my example of those three as being why the risk isn't worth it to me - and continue to interpret it as an indictment on DCM - or you can actually pay attention to why I find no excitement in the operation anymore.

Todd.
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didn’t realize you were so sensitive. The day I picked mine up, a guy in the shop offered me $1500 for mine. I declined. The money would have been long spent by now so I’m not sorry I declined.

You think they’re trash. Good for you. Plenty of people before and after you don’t. And I don’t care what condition they were in. If they were operable, and all CMP (not DCM. Things have changed) gun are operable. They’re worth more than $525. Just because some people at some gun show somewhere don’t agree with me doesn’t mean anything to me. Worlds a far bigger place than just Arizona. Bet you those same guns in gunbroker sold no problem.
 
Just curious, is the CMP refinishing/refurbishing these? The gun above looks great, but it doesnt look like most "original" GI guns Ive seen, in an armory or in the wild.

I would think that would put them in a different place value-wise in the market.
 
The quality, commitment, history, that went into that pistol are infinitely better than ANY currently produced 1911 even today,

All ONE HUNDRED PERCENT FORGED AND MACHINED CARBON STEEL PARTS instead of the cast MIM used in even so called “top end” pistols today. Made on old-fashioned machines by REAL AMERICANS FOR REAL AMERICAN MEN OF ACTION.

The military 1911s are the best ever made. Period!
 
JCooperfan1911 said:
The quality, commitment, history, that went into that pistol are infinitely better than ANY currently produced 1911 even today,

All ONE HUNDRED PERCENT FORGED AND MACHINED CARBON STEEL PARTS instead of the cast MIM used in even so called “top end” pistols today. Made on old-fashioned machines by REAL AMERICANS FOR REAL AMERICAN MEN OF ACTION.

The military 1911s are the best ever made. Period!
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Those and the original Colts. Everything else is a "clone". ;)
 
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