I'm new to wet tumbling

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Guy48065

Guy48065

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Macomb Co. Mi
I'm in the process of gathering parts & considering my options to build a wet tumbler.
Two things I'm paused on:
How big?
"Rollers"?

I'm not a very active shooter so I normally only tumbler handfuls of brass. Occasionally I might buy a bag of dirty cases but I'm never going to process shovel-loads of brass.
Should I limit my barrel to 1-gallon?
I have a couple feet of 6-inch pvc & the fittings needed.

I'm going to build a tumbler with a 1/3 hp motor & (2) 1/2" shafts to rotate the barrel. What's best to sleeve the shafts? I've chosen pulley sizes assuming my shafts will be covered with hose rather than wheels. There are many different kinds of hose available with 1/2" ID. Which offers the best combination of good grip and long life?
Polyurethane
silicone
EPDM
Vinyl
natural rubber
hybrid...

I'm probably over-thinking and over-engineering this...
 
Guy48065 said:
I'm not a very active shooter so I normally only tumbler handfuls of brass...
Click to expand...
Building your own sounds like a fun project, but not one I would choose to spend my time on. While I use a Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler and stainless steel pins for larger lots, I use a Harbor Freight single drum rotary rock tumbler for "handfuls" of brass (they have a two-drum version as well). I'm very happy with both. Take these as examples for size purposes, not instruction for your build.

And welcome to THR!
 
As a wet tumbler user and mechanical design engineer, I feel qualified to add my 2 cents....

>> The primary consideration is that the drive wheels rolling against the container exterior become a part of your gear reduction system. Do not overlook this point.

If your motor turns 1725 RPM (the standard 120V motor speed) you may need a primary reduction using a small V-belt (small pulley on the motor/ large sheave on the roller shaft), then your drive wheel-to-container becomes your secondary reduction. So if you are lucky enough to get 10:1 on your first reduction, then you are still turning 172 RPM. So in order to get your container down to 2 RPM (an optimal tumbling speed) you still need a further reduction of 86:1, which is huge. This one fact is telling you that your drive tires need to be tiny in relationship to your container. Since you are going to tumble a small number of cases, you were probably considering a small diameter container.... say 10 inches. So you, my friend, are in trouble from the very start. Because to get 86:1 on a 10" diameter container you'd need drive wheels of 0.11". That's less than 1/8 inch.

>> The secondary consideration is that motor HP is not your real concern. What you need to rotate the container is Torque, which is amplified by the mandatory gear reduction. No, what you really need is a slow speed motor. Your overall gear reduction becomes much, much easier if you can obtain (say for instance) a 900 RPM motor... even if it has a tiny torque.

The rule is while gear reduction systems decrease Speed, they also increase Torque. A 50:1 speed reduction also increases torque by 50 times. So even a motor with 1/4 ft-lb of torque ends up exerting more than enough to turn a small drum filled with water and brass.


In the end, once you find a slow speed motor, I think you'll end up with 1/4 or 5/16 inch diameter shafts coated in heat shrink tubing to grab your plastic container. These shaft sizes will also work easily with small bearing blocks and be more than sufficient to support the weight of a small container.

Hope this helps.
 
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If you typically tumble small amounts, go with a smaller tumbler. While you can do smaller batches even with the larger ones, they work best when filled halfway with cases. I would just go with the FART lite rather than build one.
 
rfwobbly said:
As a wet tumbler user and mechanical design engineer, I feel qualifies to add my 2 cents....

>> The primary consideration is that the drive wheels rolling against the container exterior become a part of your gear reduction system. Do not overlook this point.

If your motor turns 1725 RPM (the standard 120V motor speed) you may need a primary reduction using a small V-belt (small pulley on the motor/ large sheave on the roller shaft), then your drive wheel-to-container becomes your secondary reduction. So if you are lucky enough to get 10:1 on your first reduction, then you are still turning 172 RPM. So in order to get your container down to 2 RPM (an optimal tumbling speed) you still need a further reduction of 86:1, which is huge. This one fact is telling you that your drive tires need to be tiny in relationship to your container. Since you are going to tumble a small number of cases, you were probably considering a small diameter container.... say 10 inches. So you, my friend, are in trouble from the very start. Because to get 86:1 on a 10" diameter container you'd need drive wheels of 0.11". That's less than 1/8 inch.

>> The secondary consideration is that motor HP is not your real concern. What you need to rotate the container is Torque, which is amplified by the mandatory gear reduction. No, what you really need is a slow speed motor. Your overall gear reduction becomes much, much easier if you can obtain (say for instance) a 900 RPM motor... even if it has a tiny torque.

The rule is while gear reduction systems decrease Speed, they also increase Torque. A 50:1 speed reduction also increases torque by 50 times. So even a motor with 1/4 ft-lb of torque ends up exerting more than enough to turn a small drum filled with water and brass.


In the end, once you find a slow speed motor, I think you'll end up with 1/4 or 5/16 inch diameter shafts coated in heat shrink tubing to grab your plastic container. These shaft sizes will also work easily with small bearing blocks and be more than sufficient to support the weight of a small container.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity where did the 2RPM come from on what size drum. ? Not questioning the statement just curious. My cheap small Harbor Freight rubber drums turn at a much higher rate and they do an outstanding job on cleaning and polishing brass.
 
whughett said:
Out of curiosity where did the 2RPM come from on what size drum. ? Not questioning the statement just curious. My cheap small Harbor Freight rubber drums turn at a much higher rate and they do an outstanding job on cleaning and polishing brass.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Lyman Cyclone rotates a lot faster than that as well.
 
rfwobbly said:
...
Click to expand...

Holy crap did you intend to say 2rpm??
Or did you mean 2rps?

My target rotation is 60-70 rpm which I should achieve using a 1.5" motor pulley, a 5" shaft pulley and .75" OD shafts driving the 6.5" OD drum. This should give me a nominal 59rpm--close to the speed of my current 2 dry tumblers, and similar to others like the Frankford.

Now please, back to my questions...
 
I use a single drum Harbor Freight rock tumbler. Works great. Simple, cheap solution if you're not shooting 1000's of rounds a month.

I use a handful of SS pins and then fill it to within an inch of the top with brass. I can clean brass faster than I can load it. I shoot 200-300 9mm rounds a month. I'll run maybe three batches through the tumbler (1hr each) on a Sunday morning and I'll be good for a 3-4 months.
 
When I built mine I designed it around a surface speed of 100 fpm on the container. If you go much faster that that the contents of the container will tend to go centrifugal and no work will get done inside the container.
Whether you use a small drum or a larger drum you much start at the drum and work your speed backwards. I've never heard of a 2 rpm tumbler, that would be so slow that it really would be inefficient.
Just don't exceed 100 fpm on the outside of the container size your using and you will be fine.
I don't have my tachometers at home right now or I could get you a rpm for the center of your container. But the larger the container the more projection you have and the faster your surface speed will be if you calculate by rpms of the container. That's why I use fpm on the outside of the container.
Mine homemade rotary cleans circles around my other tumbler and it really doesn't look like it's running very fast.
I'm just using an old 1750 rpm furnace blower motor that is 1/4 hp, they used to laying around everywhere. tumbler.jpg
 
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A Thumlers Tumbler motor is 1/30hp, 3000rpm, 115volt, 1.1amp, ball bearing
The barrel diameter is 9”
Motor pulley is 5/8”
Drive shift pulley is 4”
Barrel rotates approximately 60rpm (HS model)

For a DIY build, I would cover the drive shafts with 5/16” ID rubber fuel line from autozone.
I would not use a salvaged furnace motor because: the bearings are usually sleeved, the rpms are low and the amperage would be 5 times greater. Thumlers motors draw 128watts...but a 1/3hp furnace motor would draw 620watts. Even a 1/4hp motor would be 500watts.
 
After building one of my own if you are not going to be tumbling 1k pistol or 750 rifle at one time I would not suggest building one. The ones you buy are much better & less expensive that building. The Franklin Armory or the Harbor Freight rock tumbler single or double would work much better for smaller quantities of brass. I have built a good tumbler but it's only good for larger amounts of brass, for small amounts I still go back to my vibratory tumbler.
Save your $$$ for buying primers! LOL
https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arsenal-Separator-Polishing-Reloading/dp/B00HTN4R6O
https://www.harborfreight.com/dual-drum-rotary-rock-tumbler-67632.html
 
Another vote for the Harbor Freight pair...I only use one, and it does all I ask it. I do start with HOT water, just a dab of detergent, let it roll for a couple hours, and rinse. I dry in an old toaster over that was aiming to be in a garage sale, stole it...
 
Ok ok please no more HF suggestions!
I already have a Lortone tumbler that the HF resembles (or copied) and uses the same rubber drum.
I don't trust the lid to hold water.
A common complaint for these small tumblers is the little motor gets too hot, and I can vouch that's true of my Lortone and my old DIY dry tumbler.

Really--I like building things. That's why I reload. It certainly isn't to save money!

16122229254845730233301808316563.jpg

20210122_052508.jpg
 
The HF is so inexpensive that if the lids fail after a year or two you can simply replace the whole thing. Mine did tend to overheat on the first run, but no problems once I took the rollers out and lubed the bearings with vaseline. It comes with them completely dry. And if you use Brass Juice instead of detergent, you will:
1. not need SS media (what a waste), and
2. only need to tumble for 1/2 hour
 
I built one like the OP. I made barrels of 1 gal. and 1.5 gallon. I found that I never use the 1 gallon. Shafts size is 1/2 in. Hose is simple 1/2 in. ID heater hose. Is geared to turn 60 rpm. I have cleaned countless thousands of cases with it without a hitch. Good luck with your project. I'm sure it will turn out fine.
 
I used that 1/4 motor on mine because it's was the smallest hp motor I had laying around at the time. Yes it is an over kill but it's been tumbling my brass since I built it in 1992 and will still be tumbling long after I'm gone.
I built it out of scrap steel, some scrap 5/8 shaft, and that old furnace motor. Just cost me my time and a few welding rods, a couple belts, and a can of Allis Chalmers paint. The bearings were discards from a machine we discontinued using or I wouldn't have used them. They were about $22.00 each.
To me it was well worth my time because I will never have to build another one.
It cleans about three times faster than my vibratory tumbler does, with the Tuffnut I use in it.
I've seen some pretty ingenious designs of home made tumblers on this forum that use all manors of containers. Some wet tumblers are PVC pipe with a rubber Fernco cap, hose clamped on the end.
Here is one that one of our members built, https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/tumbling-brass-on-a-budget-advice.877802/page-2
Scroll down to post # 45
 
Guy48065 said:
Holy crap did you intend to say 2rpm??
Or did you mean 2rps?

My target rotation is 60-70 rpm which I should achieve using a 1.5" motor pulley, a 5" shaft pulley and .75" OD shafts driving the 6.5" OD drum. This should give me a nominal 59rpm--close to the speed of my current 2 dry tumblers, and similar to others like the Frankford.

Now please, back to my questions...
Click to expand...
My home built tumbler in my picture uses the same diameter pulleys as what you said above and the paint can is 6.5" dia.
My 5/8 shafts have 5/8 heater hose forced on them to give them traction against the steel can and dampen the noise. They mic at .900" so your numbers will be really close to mine.
 
A handful of brass could be washed in a peanut butter jar.
On a very small set of four office chair wheels.
Run by an oscillating fan motor, with a stout broccoli band around the shaft and jar.
Putting the apparatus in a small cardboard box keeps the jar on the wheels.

I used one like that to make black powder.
It looked very similar to @tightgroup tiger’s
Much more fragile though, less shrapnel in case of detonation.

I made this for cleaning brass...
index.php

Ten pound of pins, fifteen pounds of water and fifteen pounds or so of brass.
It also does handfuls.;)
One inch ground steel shaft and pillow blocks may be a bit much, but I already had the sheave from my grandfathers sod mill.

While I don’t doubt the math works, we’re just sloshing brass around. You have to try hard for it to not work.
I built three disposable ones out of junk before I even put effort into it.:D

Honestly, Easy Button it and put the peanut butter jar in the dry tumbler you have and pack it in with a pillow.
When you see how well it works then you will want to put in the work for a nice one.:thumbup:
 
tightgroup tiger said:
My home built tumbler in my picture uses the same diameter pulleys as what you said above and the paint can is 6.5" dia.
My 5/8 shafts have 5/8 heater hose forced on them to give them traction against the steel can and dampen the noise. They mic at .900" so your numbers will be really close to mine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for validating my math!

Did you use an agitator of some sort inside the can? That's one detail that isn't settled in my mind. I've seen everything from big metal or plastic fins to small rubber strips to insure the media inside tumbles rather than slides.
 
Guy48065 said:
Did you use an agitator of some sort inside the can?
Click to expand...
Yup.:)
Mine are very smooth. At a slow speed or not filled with enough Wash, I have had rifle cases roll along the bottom.
But with a full load there is a rhythmic splashing that happens as the whole Wash is picked up and dropped on its self repeatedly. I grew tired of having the perfect amount and installed the fins in a new canister.
index.php
 
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