Don't encourage your murderer!

Why I keep moving myself and my family out to where there are less and less neighbors and people! If I want to interact with anyone it's not near my home!!!! It's my plan to have no one anywhere around my home and have my house in the middle of plenty of land!

bob40caliber said:

Does anyone see blood?
Does anyone see smoke from muzzle?
Does anyone see any sort of fireball?

I did not.

Don't crucify me........I'm just asking.

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Not much blood is visible during most shootings. Especially with heavy winter clothing, it takes a while for anything to seep or ooze enough to be visible. Plus, that seems to be a low-resolution camera.

There is very little smoke visible during real-world shootings. And, again, low-rez camera.

Most defensive ammo is loaded with low-flash powders. Plus, shots can occur between the frame, in a video. Most surveillance video is shot at slow frame rates, so, unless any shots happen to be timed just right, it will not show up on any of the frames. And, again, this was a low-rez camera.

No worries, and no crucifixion. TV/movies have to be edited to show muzzle flashes and dub the sound of gunfire. That is why all these fake clicks and cocking sounds, too, are in shows and movies. Smokey blanks, or special effects, make the smoke. Special effects make the blood.

I haven’t watched the video, but I read the news stories and was confused about the report of the neighbors “across the street” shoveling snow into the shooter’s yard. My first thought: they were going out of the way to piss him off. Not justification to die...but not a smart move.

My wife was watching ID TV last night (Is she looking for ideas on how to get rid of me?. ), and they had a show called “Fear Thy Neighbor”. Same sort of thing...neighborly feud escalated into a double homicide. The husband of the murdered couple kept going out of his way to antagonize the shooter, who finally delivered on his threats.

The world doesn’t have to be all “Rodney King”, but learning how not to behave like an adolescent can go a long way!

Did todays political uncertainties and frustrations play a part in this and how we react to each other?

Any number of factors may have caused this kettle to boil-over, but this could have happened before the pandemic, or well before this past election season. The couple were, most certainly, in my opinion, well-practiced at being bullies. They were not beginner-bullies.

We do not know whether the shooter always had a short fuse, or whether he had been under pressure for quite some time, and had just managed to maintain, until this one moment. The multiple finishing shots indicates a significant amount of rage, built over time.

Regardless, these were three losers, and they lost, big.

Edited to add: Whatever happened to “Love thy neighbor, as thyself?” Sigh.

One theory about his missed shots is that he at that point wasn't gonna kill them. He was at his limit and was showing them he was serious by shooting some "warning" shots.. obviously to a person still in their right mind is a horrible idea and will get you in boatloads of trouble. Anyways, as they just stood there and continued to taunt him, the last of his control was used up and he decided... "I will show you MF'ers who's the p...." that's when he decided to start shooting AT the Goys.

Any number of factors may have caused this kettle to boil-over, but this could have happened before the pandemic, or well before this past election season.

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Yeah, they same thing could have been written more than 100 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield–McCoy_feud


I still think the take away is how one may have prevented the kettle from boiling over.

In what way is being dead being a better person today? If you are not even good at self preservation, what is your best ability? That question is applicable to everyone involved in the subject of the OP.

My personal theory is that the shooter decided on a course of action when the neighbor threatened him with "I'm gonna make your life a living hell!". We have no way of knowing for sure, but I've seen that before - push someone into a corner, and they'll act like it.

The notion that standing there staring at a gun being pointed at you, shot after shot, is also probably worth noting as A Bad Idea. It shows how the target (I won't say victim, because they clearly had their own share of blame here), for all the physical bluster, wasn't really ready to engage.

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I think that is accurate, the killer was going back home, tail between his legs, if you want to call it that way. Reports are that the male victim had already thrown a tool he was using at him before that video started (I always question excerpts because I don’t think people are trying to not bore me, rather, steer the narrative).

I also noticed the deer in the headlights aspect of being used to doing “what you do” with impunity, by the victims. Again agree but again that’s the mindset. “Go ahead!” ??? In what world, situation, mindset, is that the proper verbal command to someone pointing a firearm at you?

That said, there are terrible people in the world, doesn’t mean folks can just kill every a— H—— they come across. The killer likely realized this after and it was too late at that point.

Rexster said:

“Love thy neighbor, as thyself?”

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Some have no love for themselves let alone others.

the way that couple taunted the shooter makes me think that they spent their life time getting away with bullying passive people.

From a retired cop's point of view "neighbor disputes" rarely provide much info at all about just what you might find when you get there. We always dispatched two officers as a result.... The vast majority are quiet affairs that rarely involve the slightest danger - the few that are dangerous - oh boy... One or two were so bizarre you'd think they were written just for some kind of action / thriller movie...

The worst part was always the ones that were on-going and probably headed for real trouble down the road... We'd handle them as far as we could but you always had the feeling as you left the area - that you'd be back there again eventually... Years later it was a real advantage when our dispatchers could review previous calls to the address given and advise officers headed that way of the type and danger level that address had in previous calls.

We might expect much more of this if things do not change for the better. Cop friend says disputes and assaults are up in our little town triggered by little stuff like being told "you're not wearing your mask properly". Antis love misuse of firearms and just sit back an wait.

Phaedrus/69 said:

But I wonder about the history of the shooter.

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“Jeffrey Allen Spaide, 47, a Wilkes-Barre native, graduated from Wilkes University with a bachelor’s degree in environmental engineering in 2001 and went on to get his master’s degree in water resources and environmental engineering from Villanova University in 2005...

Navy officials confirmed Spaide’s service when contacted Friday by The Post. He enlisted in September 1993 and received training in Great Lakes, Illinois. He then served on USS America and USS Nassau, as well as at duty stations in Hampton Roads, Virginia, and Panama City, Florida. His active-duty status ended in May 1998 at a rank of Damage Controlman 2nd Class.

Spaide received numerous awards and decorations during his military career, according to his service record, including a Navy Achievement Medal, a Meritorious Unit Commendation and two National Defense Service Medals.

He also received an Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, a NATO Medal and Southwest Asia Service Medal with a Bronze Star, the record shows....”

https://nypost.com/2021/02/05/shooter-in-snow-shoveling-murder-suicide-was-a-navy-veteran/

Plains Township Police Chief Dale Binker told the outlet the neighbors got into a similar argument following a snowstorm two months ago. Blinker said the incident was not reported to police and that Spaide had no criminal history.

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https://www.complex.com/life/man-kills-couple-then-himself-after-dispute-over-snow-disposal

It appears shooter was well educated and had a strong and successful military background. All this just confirms my fears that todays politics and frustrations may have helped pushed him over the edge. We all need to be aware we are, as a nation, being provoked and take steps to calm issues before they get massively out of hand. I fear, however, it may not be an isolated incident and the next few months may be less than what is desired.

Saw this a few days ago on ARF and aside from everything common sense wise that was said there and here my biggest amazement from the video was somewhat smug.

However from a tactical standpoint and pertinent to this subforum, did anyone else notice how many shots were fired at basically point blank range that missed before some started making contact?


Interesting and something to think about.

This made me stop and think about how important it is to get along with my neighbors. There have been several disputes among various neighbors of mine, luckily not involving me, and not ones that would lead to something like this I certainly hope not. I know if I get into a dispute, after watching this incident, I'm going to do everything I can to bring about a peaceful ending.

There seems to be an increasing idea that you can do what you want and get away with. The Goys had tormented their neighbor for years never thinking that there would be consequences. I’d bet the cops had been previously called and had done nothing about the Goys.

Along with that is a disconnect with reality and common sense. Mrs Goy, shot and dying in the road, is still mouthing off insults to a guy whose already shot her. What kind of reality do you exist in to do that?!

There was some kind of history, here. We'll probably never know all the details, but as Corporal Agarn said, this wasn't about shoveling snow. On the one hand, these verbal bullies had a couple chances to back off, and handle this differently. OTOH, yeah, the other guy could have also walked away.

The elephant in the room:
How many other people simply keeled over, with heart attacks and strokes, from trying to shovel snow, and deal with vehicle problems, and the like, from this same storm ?

It makes ZERO sense to do things that compromise personal safety while at the same time working hard to preserve it.

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Great points and I agree there are ways the victims could have avoided being dead but just as important are the ways the killer could have avoided his.

The Active Self Protection (ASP) YouTube channel did an evaluation video of this incident yesterday... very, very disturbing, but several good observations made.

I just read this entire thread and from my vantage point the most insightful comments observe that the Goys were not armature bullies, but rather appeared to be quite proficient and comfortable throwing their weight around and shooting their mouths off. I can only imagine the joy of living in close proximity to such lovely people.

Waxing philosophic...

I believe that the underpinnings of "civil society" are a shared system of values that upholds self-control & courtesy (even in the face of hostility) as penultimate virtues, and encourages empathy and sympathy towards others who are troubled or less fortunate.

Today's culture is more and more driven by sensationalistic media and celebrates those who "go off" on others or "rub-it-in" when they find themselves at an advantage. Long ago, I began to question the "mantras" of contemporary culture, which seem to be accepted without any critical examination. Sayings like "our diversity makes us strong" abound, but I've found just the opposite to be true... that it's the things we have in common that strengthen us and enable us to tolerate each other.

Our society has, since the 60's, thrown moral instruction (and it's religious underpinning) out of the classroom... and now people are surprised that so many of the kiddies have grown up to have no regard for others. Gangster rappers (who take from and abuse everyone around them) are the icons of the day, where once war heroes (who risked/gave their lives for others) wore that mantel.

We no longer read of the rise and fall of societies gone past, and hence are condemned to repeat every one of their follies. We have so much going for us as a society and live in a land abundant with resources and noble traditions.... yet we can't rise above self-centered hedonism as the prime motivation for our lives.

We're hell bent on demanding our "rights", and yet not taking responsibility for the inevitable fall-out of such unbridled selfishness. We're accelerating towards the abyss, and nothing short of a miracle will stop us from self-imploding under the weight of our own largess.

It is never a bad idea to be civil to those around you.