Question about load data

I definitely wouldn't call them obsolete. I also have several books that are 30 years old that I still use. However, when I do use an older book I like to compare the data with the manufacturers online data.

I'd agree with the above post, certainly one issue out of date does not make the load data obsolete. If I were using load data from the 90's or before that appeared to be significantly different than more contemporary sources, I'd do some digging. Good Lord.....just realized the 90's are 30 years ago....yes, I agree with the above post, and I'm getting old...

I've got Sierra Manual #5 and new one #6. Sierra #.5 had loading data for 280AI (Wildcat). #6 has same test rifle and test case is different (SAMMI Spec} but loading data is same. I call Sierra and was told they used old data but when i ask about case now being Spec, he hung up. Only reason got manual was for 280AI thinking it would new data. There is really much difference.

Encoreman said:

The poster said for instance a Speer #10 becomes obsolete when the Speer #11 comes out.

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LOL. The old manual is a good tomorrow as it was yesterday; it might lack new powders or cartridges, but nothing happened to spoil the data.

Well over half my data is 10+ years old, and some is older than I am as are several powders I'm still using.

I guess the poster's statement was made in a attempt to explain why data changes in subsequent manuals without acknowledging that it is DATA, not doctrine. If you measure closely enough, you WILL get a different answer every time you measure; if you add equipment, lot, batch, and method evolutions, data will evolve over time. This seems foreign to people who don't handle real measurement data.

Much data is recycled from old manuals into new. I found that Lyman data from an old '70's manual was the exact same in their 49th manual. Ditto with a Hornady.

35W

I was asking about load data on The Firing Line.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6850356#post6850356

I referenced my Speer manual circa 1979.

One of the mods, "Uncle Nick", said ... "I strongly recommend you ignore 1979 data. Since that time, powder burn rates have become more tightly controlled and that old data can have been developed with a slower lot than you can buy now. Additionally, that old data was developed in production guns relying on pressure signs and was not normally measured in a pressure gun. That means it was sometimes developed in relatively loose chambers that lowered pressure or with brass or primers that were thicker than current production and did not show pressure signs at the same pressures as modern ones do. It should be considered obsolete data and a historical curiosity, but not as reliable."

I'm waiting on my new reloading manual and am depending upon current data verified by manufacturer's websites for their respective components. There's no need to trust ancient data. Components have changed over the years as has the method of measuring.

In the text book definition of obsolete, no longer being produced, I would imagine that is correct. Why would they keep printing an old version after they finish one with all he new rounds developed?

As far as being useful I have seen some books that data in them hasn’t changed, some might be added but the old stuff can be just the same as it was in the previous book. New books would be less than useful to some of us that still have powders that are no longer made, as new books have zero data on them. This makes having older books imperative and not at all obsolete, as in a “no longer used”, obsolescence.

Most of my books are 20-30 years old. New data from manufacturers are all over the internet. Same reason there is not a phone book in my house anymore.

Some powders change in formulation over the years, so a 20yr old manual may have different charges for the same named powder. Also, pressure measurement capability and methods have changed over the years.
The benefit of older manuals is that they may have the older cartridges and older powders listed in them. Newer manuals may drop cartridges out and also drop older, less popular powders in favor of the latest and greatest powders.

With that said, I like to reference older manuals but then always do a sanity check with the newer data to make sure what I want to do looks reasonable.

A chronograph is your friend. Handloader magazine has had some really good articles on how to use a chronograph in load development and how they can tell you when you're approaching maximum pressures. John Barsness in particular has written some good ones.
I think some of these articles can be found on the 24 Hour Campfire site as well as the Loaddata.com site..
Having used a chronograph for some 35 years now, I've found velocity figures obtained from pressure guns to be quite different from those obtained in production firearms. This seems especially true in the case of revolver data.

35W

There are advantages to old manuals. Specifically if you have old propellant to use up the data was from batches made at the same time. Now the formulatioms or even the producers have changed as well as testing methods improved so the new data should be followed with newish batches of propellant. Also there are old loads that are dropped so a newer propellant that a company wants to push are favored as well as dropping a cartridge that is no longer popular.

ETA I see the last posters were faster at typing than I wes.

When I want a good shot shell load. I go for my 1970’s Lyman Manual. The castbullet manual from the same vintage is extremely valuable.

I have scattered books but I don’t think any are newer than 10 years. I’ve recently though it may be wise to print out the internet resources for stuff I load. You never know when it might disappear. I guess the loading shops aren’t handing out the powder mfg magazine style manuals any more. I haven’t seen one in a long time.

I bought a hornady book when I first started loading. (I’m a huge hornady bullet fan) no matter where the data comes from all loads that get developed are added into the data with notes. It’s nice to be able to flip to the page and see what I’ve forgot I did for load development. someone needs to make a manual and add 2 blank pages after every caliber for notes.

Encoreman said:

Hi all,I have been reloading for close to 30 years and have acquired a good many load data books. I read something recently that I would like your input. The poster said for instance a Speer #10 becomes obsolete when the Speer #11 comes out. What says ya'll? Using speer as an example I assumed it was meant for any company. Thanks Mac

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Just my opinion but I disagree. Then again, this is one of those topics that kind of gets people riled up - kind of like arguing about whose dog is uglier. My final statement on the topic is: you do you and leave me be.

This may be Speers way of getting books sold...

A few powders do change over time (burn rates) and old powders go out of production so the manuals are still of good value.

I use my old manuals from the 80s because I have powder from then so it should jive just nicely.