What are we going to do, what are the alternatives?

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wcwhitey

wcwhitey

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I don't know about you but I am a shooter and reloader. I shoot weekly to the tune of 100-200 rounds of pistol during the winter rifle in the warm weather. All of what I reload. I carry factory ammo of which I have plenty, but not range ammo. I load for .38/357, .45 acp, .44 Special/Magnum, 5.56 and .308. Generally what I have done over the years is load over the winter, 1K so for each caliber so I can shoot at my leisure. I have some stores in loaded and components but not 1000 of each anymore. I have powder, brass and bullets, but like everyone else no friggin primers. It is very frustrating, I survived and learned my lesson during the last primer shortage but this feels different. I can accept the excuse of new shooters and gun buyers, that is fine. But when I go the range which is also a LGS, they do not even have ammo for the guns they are selling. What happens is I walk out with a box of .22lr just to replace what I have shot because you can only buy 2. Not a conspiracy theorist but this is just stupid. Is this the end of the sport, are $2 a round prices the new norm or what?
 
That makes no sense, economics is one thing, I get the price, availability is what I am talking about. With no wars currently, other than COVID the manufactures should be able to keep up with demand. But if they don't want to, that is a complete other issue.
What you are seeing for 3x the price is not current production, its what someone has stockpiled and now cashing in on.
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Well, maybe....but at they rate they are printing money, everything is going to double in price over the next few years, so it wont seem so bad- relatively.
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If I remember correctly I took a year and a half for 22lr to routinely show up after the last 'panic'.. It didnt last near this long. We are about to hit the 1yr mark for people panic buying after years and years of surplus. It caught everyone with their pants down.

So we are likely looking at an extremely long wait for things to return to normal.
 
The answer has been posted a few times. Here's one thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...d-the-great-ammo-crisis.883315/#post-11818346
I am not trying to be flippant, and I get frustrated too, but unless you've discovered the black hole where it all disappeared, it does little of value to keep rehashing it. We all agree, we want our cheap ammo back. But in the words of the poet, it is a home to which you may not return. The future is a challenge and we will deal with it as it unfolds.
 
rust collector said:
The answer has been posted a few times. Here's one thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...d-the-great-ammo-crisis.883315/#post-11818346
I am not trying to be flippant, and I get frustrated too, but unless you've discovered the black hole where it all disappeared, it does little of value to keep rehashing it. We all agree, we want our cheap ammo back. But in the words of the poet, it is a home to which you may not return. The future is a challenge and we will deal with it as it unfolds.
Click to expand...

I get it, not venting frustrations, at this point someone would have or should have expanded operations to meet the need. That is Capitalism. We hear of no new companies that are filling the gaps in demand, that is what usually happens. Assuming raw materials are available, the major manufacturers should be hiring line workers by the thousands. Have not seen that. It to me seems strange, I may be off board and missing something but this is intentional.
 
NIGHLORD40K: yes, our "printing more money" will likely be much more borrowed from our Chinese friends (we pay them a huge amount of total interest). Same country who produce several categories of the worlds' critical pharmaceuticals, while stealing hundreds of million$ of technical info...

..and devastated the worlds' economy (+ death count), while initially keeping mum for many weeks as their virus spread inside China (and doctors disappeared). And they "allegedly" paid millions to " H.B. " and "The Big Guy". ;)
Good place to borrow more money.

> The ammo anxiety < will gradually cool off, as the economy gradually sees some serious potential inflation risk.
 
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wcwhitey said:
I get it, not venting frustrations, at this point someone would have or should have expanded operations to meet the need. That is Capitalism. We hear of no new companies that are filling the gaps in demand, that is what usually happens. Assuming raw materials are available, the major manufacturers should be hiring line workers by the thousands. Have not seen that. It to me seems strange, I may be off board and missing something but this is intentional.
Click to expand...

Won't happen that way. They're not gonna spend millions to expand with new machinery and employees only to see consumer demand return to normal so they have to lay off people and idle expensive machines.
 
Well, me personally, I've barely shot this year. I have one rifle I haven't shot at all yet, and another I put some rounds through only to find out I needed a different scope mount. Bought the mount, but never took it back out. I have enough 223 and 9mm to shoot occasionally, just hard for me to justify shooting much because I know I won't be able to replace it currently. I'm actually probably going to dive into 22lr for practice hard this year for both handgun and rifle shooting as I have several thousand rounds which will last me a good while.
 
I will add, an air rifle and a crossbow have been helpful in scratching the shooting itch without digging into the stockpile.
 
DocRock said:
What, pray tell, is the theory? That publicly traded companies whose revenue derives from, or in part from, ammunition and component manufacture are purposefully not producing ammunition and components? Do tell.
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No theory just the question. Yes publicly traded, huge government contracts. We have seen shortages, short term based on orders from Homeland Security, that is to be expected. The .22 Shortage was based solely on that as the companies had to fill large centerfire contracts. I get that ammo is short and therefore all components from the major manufacturers that make brass bullets primers etc. have to keep their sugar daddy's happy. Observation, you see ammo available online for crazy figures. Its not the same ammo available last year. It is Aquila, PMC and other companies of foreign make. What American companies are putting ammo on the shelves right now as they claim, even during slow times. I do not see any.

I will add that American bullet makers seem to be doing well, I would love to be a lead bullet maker right now. Brass is not even so bad. Powder trickles in here and there. Primers, no primers, why? Only primers and US made ammo right now is old stock.
 
I'm going to get more into Percussion guns, been eyeing a Lyman single shot .54 pistol, the NAA black powder Companion, might even decide to get a Sharps rifle and Veterans Arms matchlock. Powder is not impossible to source and I can make my own caps/slowmatch with the right tools and if I have to will cast my own bullets.

That's just so I can shoot at the range and enjoy myself and I haven't gone in a month because I don't want to blow all my ammo shooting indoors during Winter, I like shooting outside.
 
I posted about this in another forum, here's a shortened version
Now, let's examine the shortage from an objective perspective.

Ammo buyers (us):
Group A- own a number of guns, have quite a good stock of ammo, watching this with concern but haven't come close to running out. You can put reloaders in here.
Group B- own a couple guns, but didn't have a good stock, and things are tight
Group C- owns 1 or 2, don't shoot much, might own a box or so (which lasted them months to a year), but now want more 'for insurance'
Group D- just bought guns, and are scrambling to find ammo for their purchases
Group E- flippers, want to make a profit on the shortage

So right now everyone is looking, and some are buying.

Group A is watching, trying to cherry-pick what they can, if it comes into play for the right price.
I consider myself in that group, and haven't bought anything since July or so.

Group C is aware and concerned, but standing pat, or has spent once for a couple more boxes, and is now good.

Group D has spent a few hundred to feel confortable. They're probably good now, too.

Groups B and E are doing daily searches, competing with each other to get deals at Academy and Bass Pro etc, and otherwise keeping the shelves bare. B is mad at E, but B is the reason E exists.

Now, at some point Group B will get enough that they won't keep paying through the nose, and things will settle down. Group E will try to monitor that, so they don't get stuck with huge surplus at high prices when that happens.
Once that occurs, the annual demand for ammo will go back to what it had been, and manufacturers won't be needing to have increased production. If they gear up for it, it's a long-term loss. The market will be stable with pre-panic production, and any excess will simply become stuff that lowers demand even more... no reason for a store to order once the shelves are full again.
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We are seeing 9mm at Bass Pro and Academy being delivered. When it arrives, it is Federal, for $14.99 a box of 50.
My experience is that Federal wasn't the cheapest brand, and Academy and Bass Pro weren't the cheapest locations. In other words, this is almost normal, pre-covid pricing.
 
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I have a stash of ammo for all of my firearms, I have simply changed my mindset and my shooting habits to accommodate the lack of available ammo - I just shoot less and I will await the drought end or continue to adjust to conditions. Two or three rounds will get me through deer season and a 50 ct. box of .22 LR through squirrel season. There is no shortage of fishing tackle or archery equipment or percussion rifle components that I can see so I will adapt to what is available. We have all been spoiled by immediate material gratification (the Amazon Syndrome), now we may have to get unspoiled. A happy life is all in the head, make the best of it while you are here - remember, you are just visiting this planet for a short time and then it all goes away.
 
DocRock said:
There are no primers because ammunition is being made hand over fist, offering better margins.
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So basically reloading is either going to become a thing of the past or to compensate for the profit loss of just selling primers the cost for them will double.

*sigh*
 
I didn't see this type of ammunition drought coming, even though I got through the previous one without any real hardship. What I can say is that prior to the 2016 and 2020 elections, first, because in 2016 I believed Hillary would win, and second, in 2020 because I felt a weird vibe, I'd been ordering ammo online and running up a couple credit cards like there was no tomorrow simply because (1) ammo prices seemed reasonable and (2) I wanted a good stockpile so I wouldn't have to keep running out to retail outlets to buy it.

I'm not patting myself on the back; it's probably the first time in my life I've been prepared for events, and also the first time my paranoia has really paid off.

What are "we" going to do? Dunno. Strange times. Wait it out? Maybe two bucks a round for 9mm FMJ will end up being the new normal, if and when you can go into a retail store at any time and expect to find ammo on the shelves.

In the meantime, I'm still shooting at my normal rates, and my kids should inherit what's left when I pass (and hopefully it'll still be a sizable amount). And also for now, I'm gonna get into single action cowboy revolvers and shoot a lot more bolt and lever action rifle.
 
wcwhitey: At our local Academy, the same 20-25 guys clean it out not long after the doors open, on each M-W-Friday. Those are the normal stock/availability days (or they were).

The A. gun dept. manager told me about this months ago. It is also likely at Bass Pro etc when doors open, but with higher prices than at Academy, there's less incentive (is there?) to flip Bass Pro ammo on Gunbroker, and at gun shows.
 
Ignition Override said:
It is also likely at Bass Pro etc when doors open, but with higher prices than at Academy, there's less incentive (is there?) to flip Bass Pro ammo on Gunbroker, and at gun shows.
Click to expand...
Guy on a local forum said the Bass Pro near me had Federal 9mm, $14.99 box of 50. Isn't that what Academy is listing at, too?

Far as I remember, that wasn't too far out of line with pre-covid prices. Bass Pro and Academy weren't the cheapest places, and Federal wasn't the cheapest brass ammo. Store brands (Herter's, Monarch) would be less, and usually so would something like PPU or Blazer Brass.
And like I said, I tended not to shop there, as online, I could find folks with S&B and/or Fiocchi on sale for way less, and often with free shipping for a case. Or surplus MEN or similar NATO rds, again for real cheap.

Now that all the excess is gone, I guess we're going to find out what the 'real market' price is going to be, next year. Is PPU going to come undercut Federal again?
 
lsudave: I've no idea what stores charge since 2019, as I've barely touched my 9mm reserves, or too much of .22LR or 7.62x39.
Several trips into stores have been out of curiosity and noticing customers' body language plus moods. Preparations for the possible future need to trade items in some place resembling "Thunderdome's " Bartertown".
Wanted to see the actual changes in human nature via indoctrination from Non-stop mass media and the internet (this indoc. worked as "planned"...$$$$ ). I noticed that there was no real shortage of guns in local stores (just the cheapest used handguns).

:scrutiny: My only question about whenever somebody says that they "found" a box of lower-cost 9mm ir ammo in a store---
---Was this "discovery" Soon after the store's opening time/stocking time (if different), or two-four hours later etc?

The context - when it's not stated - can lead to mistaken conclusions. Quite frankly I would like to shoot much more than 250 rds. of 7.62x39/month, and at least 200 rds. of 9mm/month (have five 9mm handguns)....one day,
not if, but when the base prices return to something resembling 2019 prices (excluding new internet sales tax).
 
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If your norm is shooting 100-200 rounds per week, the easiest thing to do is to just stop shooting that much, especially if your stocks are being reduced below comfortable limits. Break out the CO2 BB guns and have at it...

I guess shooting is like a drug for some people. Blowing through 500 - 1000 rounds per month just isn't going to be feasible again for 99% of gun owners for a long time into the future.
 
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