Personal Defense 9mm Ammo

not to be negative, but any light for caliber bullet that uses some speed gimmick is just a gimmick. Most of the time it won't cycle reliably, but costs so much people are afraid to try. I won't tell you to run 500 rounds like the 99% lying people of the internet, but at least one magazine. The Hornady is fine. Golddots, Hydroshocks - whatever the equivalent is now, Golden sabers (when the come back) Winchester ranger/silvertip. Avoid anything from a small company claiming to be "revolutionary". Run, point, and laugh at any maker saying "game changer". 115-125 grain at 1200fps +- 100.

The only exception I would consider is something with a lehigh penetrator, or another solid copper like the DPX, those weigh less, or go slower because the solid copper means more pressure for a given energy level.

Companies like underwood, buffalo bore make some really good stuff if you are worried about heavier animals like cougars or bears. You pay a lot for it.

I have seen the ARX in action, its junk. I have a friend who thinks its awesome because the mall ninja that sold it to him sold him a story to go with it. Never seen that many pistols jam that many times. I have some ammo he cleared during malfunction drills I may shoot sometime over a chrono, but a plastic bullet is a stupid idea, even if you call it a copper matrix composite. The bank a lot on people thinking its the Lehigh extreme penetrator bullet, because it looks just like it. At least some of the people selling it say it is. The reality is this was supposed to be a cheap blasting bullet, and when that proved impractical, they started marketing it as "THE NEXT NEW THING!"... Yea, the Glasser safety slug did it 30 years ago... except that was designed for a real purpose (not damaging hydraulic lines on airplanes if shot by air marshals IIRC, someone will correct me if im wrong.

This is bound to generate a lot of opinions. That out of the way, I prefer Winchester Ranger 127gr. +P+ for serious social scenarios.

my personal choice https://shopcorbon.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=230

Or
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/win...d-jacketed-hollow-point-ra9mmjhp-p-3876.aspx?

I use Speer Lawman 124s for practice and Speer Gold Dot 124s for carry; same POI/POA in my Sigs and HKs and Glocks

124 grain +p Gold Dots

SIG 365 ammo in a P365. Eleven hundred feet per second, less blast and flash.
I've some 115 grain handloads for practice.
Moon

I carry Speer Gold Dot 115 gr. hollowpoints.

Why 115 gr. instead of 124, 135, or 147 grain?

For the simple reason that the standard velocity and mass match that of my typical target ammunition, Winchester White Box 115 gr.

I cannot distinguish any difference in point of impact between the two at the range, which means I can continue economic target shooting with WWB 115 gr. knowing that my choice in Gold Dot will be no different.

I wouldn't mind a heavier bullet, but then my preference would be to find a fairly inexpensive target ammo source with the same mass which shoots the same as the heavier self-defense round. I really have no desire to do so, honestly.

mjsdwash said:

not to be negative, but any light for caliber bullet that uses some speed gimmick is just a gimmick. Most of the time it won't cycle reliably, but costs so much people are afraid to try. Avoid anything from a small company claiming to be "revolutionary". Run, point, and laugh at any maker saying "game changer".

The only exception I would consider is something with a lehigh penetrator, or another solid copper like the DPX, those weigh less, or go slower because the solid copper means more pressure for a given energy level.

I have seen the ARX in action, its junk. I have a friend who thinks its awesome because the mall ninja that sold it to him sold him a story to go with it. Never seen that many pistols jam that many times. I have some ammo he cleared during malfunction drills I may shoot sometime over a chrono, but a plastic bullet is a stupid idea, even if you call it a copper matrix composite. The bank a lot on people thinking its the Lehigh extreme penetrator bullet, because it looks just like it.

Yea, the Glasser safety slug did it 30 years ago.

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You don't like 'gimmick' bullets but you like the Lehighs. It's called a gimmick bullet, too.

Your friend's gun doesn't function well with the ARX ammo. Then it's not for his/gun. But that's just one gun, and you can't judge it based on just one gun. You have to try any new ammo in your gun to see if it operates reliably. No exceptions. I've fired the ARX in 9mm, 40, and 45. No function problems. They do have less recoil than most ammo, and this might be a problem for some guns. Reviewers have had good reliability with this ammo.

Plastic bullets are a stupid idea according to who? You? Thanks, but most of us will trust the advice of qualified experts over you.

No, the ARX does not look just like the Lehigh bullets. A dark brown round nose ARX does not look like a copper flat nose bullet. Maybe to you, but not other people.

Speed is a "gimmick" but not if Corbon loads it? Right.

"gimmick" Bullet reviews from professionals:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/10/23/tested-the-polycase-arx-bullet/

https://gunsmagazine.com/discover/f...dvanced Rotation,yet produce much less recoil.

fxvr5 said:

You don't like 'gimmick' bullets but you like the Lehighs. It's called a gimmick bullet, too.

Your friend's gun doesn't function well with the ARX ammo. Then it's not for his/gun. But that's just one gun, and you can't judge it based on just one gun. You have to try any new ammo in your gun to see if it operates reliably. No exceptions. I've fired the ARX in 9mm, 40, and 45. No function problems. They do have less recoil than most ammo, and this might be a problem for some guns. Reviewers have had good reliability with this ammo.

Plastic bullets are a stupid idea according to who? You? Thanks, but most of us will trust the advice of qualified experts over you.

No, the ARX does not look just like the Lehigh bullets. A dark brown round nose ARX does not look like a copper flat nose bullet. Maybe to you, but not other people.

Speed is a "gimmick" but not if Corbon loads it? Right.

"gimmick" Bullet reviews from professionals:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/10/23/tested-the-polycase-arx-bullet/

https://gunsmagazine.com/discover/fluted-ammo-great-or-gimmik/#:~:text=On average, the Advanced Rotation,yet produce much less recoil.

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three of his guns, two of mine. 5 were tried, 5 didn't work. Plastic bullets are a stupid idea not by my idea, but by the laws of physics. Water makes bad jet fuel too. The Lehigh is a gimmick, so are the DPX, but I have faith in those based on the fact that copper is lighter than lead. At 90 grains, that copper bullet will be as big as a lead 115. A solid copper bullet is proven and has been used from 1 mile target to elephants (the concept not that particular bullet) Plastic bullets have proven to be plastic bullets. As noted, he should at least try these in 1 magazine. I don't think thats unreasonable.

I don't think there is a "magic bullet". Any quality jhp will do IMO. While they might perform better in testing there is nothing that proves the (normal prices) $1.50-$2.00 a round designer ammo is better.

mjsdwash said:

three of his guns, two of mine. 5 were tried, 5 didn't work. Plastic bullets are a stupid idea not by my idea, but by the laws of physics.

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By all means, please explain the physics for us. And share data that supports it. Thanks.

I use 147gr Federal HST, the +P version when I can get it, the standard pressure when it's all I can find. On occasion I carry 124gr HST when I can't get the heavier stuff. Probably it doesn't mean much for me to tell you what I carry, but you asked. I like it because it is/was reasonably priced [when there was such a thing as reasonably priced ammo], accurate in all of my guns and has a good reputation among experts. It should be obvious but in case it's not, I've never shot anyone with it, much less enough people to generate a database of statistical significance. I like nickel plates ammo for a variety of reasons. In normal times I order it from SGAmmo in 50 round boxes for around $28/box so to make it worth shipping I'll get five or six boxes. Right now steel cased Russian ammo is $.90/round but I have several hundred rounds of CCW ammo and never let my stock get too low.

fxvr5 said:

Your friend's gun doesn't function well with the ARX ammo. Then it's not for his/gun. But that's just one gun, and you can't judge it based on just one gun. You have to try any new ammo in your gun to see if it operates reliably. No exceptions. I've fired the ARX in 9mm, 40, and 45. No function problems. They do have less recoil than most ammo, and this might be a problem for some guns. Reviewers have had good reliability with this ammo.

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This is an absolute must.

Any new gun I buy gets several brands/types of ammunition run through it from the get-go. Most times the gun chews up whatever I feed it, but occasionally I'll find something it doesn't like to eat. You don't have to run every possible brand/type of ammo through a gun, but you should try some sort of variety. Obviously choosing what you normally buy and shoot should account for part of that variety, because everybody loves it when a new gun works great with what they already shoot, right?

Not only do some guns not like some types of ammunition, but different ammunition may be more or less accurate than others.

If a gun doesn't like a certain type/brand of ammo, then don't try to keep feeding it that ammo. All you'll end up doing is frustrating yourself needlessly, especially since they're usually a TON of other brands/types in whatever caliber.

I certainly wouldn't consider 115g "light for caliber" in 9mm. 1200fps for a 115g 9mm is about right for a self defense load. Now the lightweight, <100g loads are banking on the huge velocity numbers to drive sales as a marketing gimmick. While they can have a higher foot pound of energy number, they have less momentum, so at a certain point, driving a lighter and lighter bullet faster and faster is a lesson in diminishing returns. On the other hand, a heavier bullet will have more momentum at the cost of reduced velocity. What one will preform better in the intended target....largely depends on the target. But 124g is a good compromise in 9mm, a little bump in bullet weight with a small, if any loss of velocity and shouldn't change the point of impact a great deal at conversational distances. 147g starts to drop the velocity off too much in my opinion, but may be the ticket for subsonic loads for suppressor use. I'm personally not a fan of them in 9mm, others will disagree. I figure if I want to huck a heavy piece of lead, may as well use a 45. 115 or 124 with a more or less conventional hollowpoint design for self defense is my choice. My personal preference?...115g Gold Dots or 115g Critical Defense, those two are the most accurate and reliable out of my 9mm, and a hit with one of those beats a miss or a jam with something else all day long.

I’m partial to Federal 124gr +P HSTs as my defensive round.

bersaguy said:

While they can have a higher foot pound of energy number, they have less momentum, so at a certain point, driving a lighter and lighter bullet faster and faster is a lesson in diminishing returns.

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I'm waiting for the development of weapons that reach relativistic velocities with particles the size of grains of sand, or even dust mote size.

Imagine the energy release upon impact for even something the size/mass of a grain of sand at velocities traveling at a significant fraction of the speed of light?

Alas, I fear this will yet remain in the realm of science fiction for the foreseeable future.

GoldDot, Rangers, or what I carry, Winchester PDX1. Which is similar to the Ranger T series if it isn’t the same. Idk if Ranger T’s were bonded. PDX1’s are. They’re a nasty bullet. I don’t carry a 9mm. But I can show you what one does in 45. Notice the little point on the left side of my index finger? It’s quite sharp. It’s like an improved, bonded, Black Talon.

!47 grain HST for all of my 9MM pistols.

I like the hydroshots from Federal but I do not carry a 9mm and only use (and trust) that bullet in .45 ACP.

I use 115 gr Gold Dots because I got a really good deal on several boxes. If/when I buy more, I'd probably go with 124 gr Gold Dot or some variety of Federal HST. Hornady Critical Defense would be an option I'd be fine with too.

halfmoonclip said:

SIG 365 ammo in a P365. Eleven hundred feet per second, less blast and flash.
Moon

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Me too.

Did someone say Light carry ammo ?
YRMV