9mm 147 gr Loads
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Charlie98
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Go to Hodgdon.com and use the reloading data available online... they have data for the 147grn XTP and W231, that should get you there.
As an aside, watch your OAL carefully with the 147's and that fast powder.
As an aside, watch your OAL carefully with the 147's and that fast powder.
GeoDudeFlorida
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If the JHP is the "improved heel radius" bullet Remington made for match target, RMB23538, watch both your cartridge overall length and your overall seating depth. There is no published load for the combination of the Remington 147gr. MC (RMB23536) and W231/HP-38; but, there is data for WSF and WST. There's probably a reason for that. Those are odd-duck bullets you have there. The profile of the JHP is kind of like a Speer GDHP except for that odd rounded heel hanging down. My suggestion is to start with low end loads for other makes of 147gr like Charlie says and work up, plunk-testing all the way. Your pistol's throat is going to determine how long you can seat those bullets.
GeoDudeFlorida
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You're right. My mistake. WSF but not WST. Should have put my glasses on.
JJFitch
Member
The problem with the small 9mm case, COL and 147 grain bullet is getting factory velocities within SAAMI pressure specs. As in the above example factory velocity is 980-990 fps. Not much of a difference but when trying to cut X's at 50 yards it might!
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Dudedog
Contributing Member
Lyman 50 doesn't list either of your bullets but with a Speer 147 TMJ @ 1.115 they show
W231
Start 3.5gr 855fps
MAX 4.1gr 957
Hodgdon shows
So they are showing quite a bit lower with the XTP (Hodgdon MAX with is is lower than Lyman starting with the Speer TMJ)
Also note Hodgdon MAX vel with that bullet is about the same a Lymans starting vel
The only other data I have for a 147 and W231 is for a lead bullet from an old Winchester pub,
Start 3.3gr 865 fps MAX 3.5gr 905fps
If it was me I would start at 3gr with your bullets and work up.
A Chrono would be a big help if you have one.
W231
Start 3.5gr 855fps
MAX 4.1gr 957
Hodgdon shows
So they are showing quite a bit lower with the XTP (Hodgdon MAX with is is lower than Lyman starting with the Speer TMJ
)Also note Hodgdon MAX vel with that bullet is about the same a Lymans starting vel
The only other data I have for a 147 and W231 is for a lead bullet from an old Winchester pub,
Start 3.3gr 865 fps MAX 3.5gr 905fps
If it was me I would start at 3gr with your bullets and work up.
A Chrono would be a big help if you have one.
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rfwobbly
Member
Welcome Aboard !
• Be aware that if your gun has a Match Barrel or is a CZ, striker Springfield, or other tight chambered pistol, then not every 147gr bullet offered for sale can be loaded for your gun. That makes 147gr a poor starting choice for a new reloader.
• WST and W231 are not generally shown for 147gr bullets because heavier bullets generally like slower powders. The loading manuals are showing what is preferred by the general population of shooters. Those faster powders can be used, but it's a specialty load generally reserved for competition, not general plinking. And too, the load range will be very narrow. Something like 0.3 to 0.5gr instead of the loads listed in your manual that are 0.8 to 1.5gr. That being the case, most of the people using those specialty loads 1) have generally been loading long enough to greatly refine their load process, 2) have lots of experience with their powder measures, and 3) are generally using high accuracy equipment. So again, your powder/bullet pairing is less than optimal.
► You'd be better advised to start with a 124gr bullet and W231. That's a classic pairing that any pistol can accept, and the load range is super wide so that beginner errors don't mean much. The likelihood of trouble in one or both of these areas is a genuine reality, so I'm just reporting where your education hurdles and safety limits lie.
You may be suffering under the false impression that all 9mm guns are made alike. They are not. There are HUGE variations in auto pistol chamber dimensions between brands. We'd really need to know your exact bullet and exact make/model gun to take you any further.
Hope this helps.
• Be aware that if your gun has a Match Barrel or is a CZ, striker Springfield, or other tight chambered pistol, then not every 147gr bullet offered for sale can be loaded for your gun. That makes 147gr a poor starting choice for a new reloader.
• WST and W231 are not generally shown for 147gr bullets because heavier bullets generally like slower powders. The loading manuals are showing what is preferred by the general population of shooters. Those faster powders can be used, but it's a specialty load generally reserved for competition, not general plinking. And too, the load range will be very narrow. Something like 0.3 to 0.5gr instead of the loads listed in your manual that are 0.8 to 1.5gr. That being the case, most of the people using those specialty loads 1) have generally been loading long enough to greatly refine their load process, 2) have lots of experience with their powder measures, and 3) are generally using high accuracy equipment. So again, your powder/bullet pairing is less than optimal.
► You'd be better advised to start with a 124gr bullet and W231. That's a classic pairing that any pistol can accept, and the load range is super wide so that beginner errors don't mean much. The likelihood of trouble in one or both of these areas is a genuine reality, so I'm just reporting where your education hurdles and safety limits lie.
You may be suffering under the false impression that all 9mm guns are made alike. They are not. There are HUGE variations in auto pistol chamber dimensions between brands. We'd really need to know your exact bullet and exact make/model gun to take you any further.
Hope this helps.
herkyguy
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I’m far from an expert, but I have been experimenting for some time with 147 grain bullets in 9mm. Concur with the slower powder recommendation above, I’ve settled on AA#7 from a 13.5” barreled Sig MPX. Prior to that, I was trying 800X but after working up to a max load, velocity topped out at 900 fps from the same MPX and it wouldn’t cycle my Springfield XDS with a 4” barrel.
Fast powders are excellent for target/plinking ammo with 147's.
I use(d) 7625, Bullseye and W231 with my 147's including the Rem 147 'match'.
Light recoil, light report, v-good accuracy.
Don't let the theorists dissuade you from trying 147's with W231, it's an excellent combination (if you actually try it).
I use(d) 7625, Bullseye and W231 with my 147's including the Rem 147 'match'.
Light recoil, light report, v-good accuracy.
Don't let the theorists dissuade you from trying 147's with W231, it's an excellent combination (if you actually try it).
glockgod
Member
I've been running 147 grain Montana Gold bullets with 3.7 grains of 231 for the last several years. Seated 1.150
Lennyjoe
Member
Hornady’s 10th Edition for your reference.
Bcwitt
Member
231 will work, but a slower powder would work better.
lordpaxman
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Welcome to THR!
Lots of great advice from the members here. As a new reloader you may get a bit confused with conflicting posts.
Lots of great advice from the members here. As a new reloader you may get a bit confused with conflicting posts.
I’ll second this - for lower velocity loads 231 will work just fine. For higher velocity loads, you should choose a slower powder. If you have a chrono or have access to one it would help but is not necessary. Use published data for 231, start low and work up to a functioning load. Determine your max and working COL first!!! Good luck.
Hi, I am shooting CZ's, SP01 Shadow and a P-01. I'm shooting 147 XTP which is cycling well and very accurate. Can't find info on the Remington 147 JHP's - they have a round boat tail bottom/base and I'm wondering if that affects the pressure by going deeper in the case?
NMexJim
Member
RJ - in your first comment, are you talking about bullet diameter or bullet length in relation to powder? I'm having a little trouble following that.
lordpaxman
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Some heavier bullet profiles include a tapered base to better fit the 9mm tapered case. That way there’s less of a bulge or wasp waist. The question really is one of seating depth when compared to published data. Hodgdon online has an XTP at 1.100” COL. If you know the XTP bullet OAL, you can calculate the seating depth and compare that to your REM 147. That is if you’ve determined your max and working COL for your guns. And yes, less free space in the case will mean an increase in pressure, so you’d need to reduce the starting powder amount. Have you determined working COL for the REM 147’s?
rfwobbly
Member
Volume inside the case and under the bullet is only half of the equation. So the answer to your question is "No". Bullet seating depth by itself does not create chamber pressure.
If you want to compare 2 theoretical cartridges with the same powder weight and exact same bullet, then "Yes" the deeper seated bullet would have a higher chamber pressure. But there is no evidence that 1) the 147gr XTP and Remington 147 share the same bullet dimensions, 2) that the 2 cartridges use the same powder, 3) that Remington and Hornady brass have the same internal dimensions, or 4) that even if they do use the same powder, that they use the same weight of powder.
Instead I suggest you Google photos of the 2 boxes where velocity information is generally printed. Compare the 2 velocities. Comparable velocities have comparable chamber pressures.
rfwobbly
Member
Neither. I'm talking about the pure physical barriers of cartridge building.
► The way the bullet interfaces with the barrel determines the Max OAL. That's a physical barrier on the maximum cartridge length.
► But the longer 147gr bullet can only be seated so deeply before it runs into the thickening cartridge case wall. That's a physical barrier on the minimum cartridge length.
Some brands of pistols with generous freebore never see this issue. Some brands of pistols with short freebore see this all the time. It is totally dependent upon the brand of bullet, the brand of barrel, and the brand of brass... and how the 3 of them interplay. There are wide variations in all 3, so only the reloader will know (or sadly discover).
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mstreddy
Member
Win 231 will work fine for the 147s. May not be the most velocity, but since I was loading subsonic for my suppressor, it worked fine for me. I have loaded up over 5K of a variety of 147 gr. Plated, TMJ, and cast lead ~150s with 3.5 to 3.7 gr. 3.7 was used with the cast.
NMexJim
Member
Interesting. At one time, 147 grain was my favorite, and I loaded a lot of them in jacketed, plated, and lead. I can't say I ever ran into this problem. I own several Springfields with match barrels, Kahrs, and Sigs. The only issue I ever had was a feed issue with a Kahr. I moved away from 147 because I could find no benefit from running them and so went to 124s.
Charlie98
Member
That used to be me, too. I wanted the heaviest practical bullet... for my HiPower. These days, with my Kahrs, it seems the better trade-off is a little more velocity with a little less weight... so I'm back to 124's, too. Because the 147 is such a long-for-cartridge bullet, seating depth can be tricky in some pistols.
I recently loaded my last box of Berrys 147's... thinking it would be the last 147's I'd ever load for the 9mm... and then Midway had those 147grn XTP's on sale, so here we are, again.
Charlie98
Member
Soooo... help me out here. What does the IHR bullet do that a flat-base bullet doesn't do?
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