Overall costs for 80% builds

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WestKentucky

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There seems to be a disagreement among many folks as far as whether an 80% build is cheaper, more expensive, sensible, or silly. I have done 2 80% AR builds and likely won’t do another. The first was a train wreck where something shifted in the vice and my lower wasn’t in spec. I had multiple instances of a hanging hammer and as soon as I went to put the safety on it would fire. That lower was destroyed and replaced with a factory completed Anderson lower. My second went smoothly and I still have it. At the time I built them, I built them out of curiosity to see what all the 80% mess was about and because it was fun. Comparable guns would have sold for about 700 each at that time and I had 550 in one of them, 600 in the one I had to replace the lower on. Saved a few bucks but that wasn’t the point. Since then the 80% market has grown exponentially. Various glock, 1911, 10/22 etc kits, receivers, etc on the market make me want to play some more, but I won’t at this time... too many irons in too many other fires so to speak. That doesn’t change the questions though. How much does a complete and functional 80% build cost to complete? Is it worth it? Would you do another one? Compared to buying a complete gun did you save money? Did you get a product more in line with what you wanted?

And of course we want pictures. I will post pics of mine later as they are on an older phone.
 
I have done a few 80% builds but mostly pistols. If I keep things simple then I can build at the same cost or slightly lower than buying a pistol. Normally I do spend more since I add things that I want such as a RMR cut slide and other upgrades.

Building a firearm from an 80% receiver/frame is not for everyone and there is nothing wrong with that. I have full confidence in my builds and they are just as reliable as a store bought gun. But I am a retired machinist/tool and die maker and gun smith too.
 
There’s no way to build a Polymer80 ‘Glock’ for less than the cost of an actual new Glock from an FFL at the moment, even with off-brand slides, barrels and internal parts. There are Glock slide and barrel combos on eBay with starting bids more than a complete gun. I “built” a Polymer80 at the beginning of last year just because the frame kits were on sale and I like the grip angle better. By the time I bought parts kits it was barely cheaper than a factory new gun and that was before the gunpocalypse. If I ever did it again I would just buy a complete gun and strip it for parts for the P80 frame.

The P80 frames are laughably easy to complete. It takes about 20 minutes to drill three holes and Dremel out some plastic. Doing an aluminum AR is another thing entirely. I would rather just pour a dozen Fruity Ghost lowers than do one aluminum one with a drill press.
 
Going off pre-Covid prices, I could have bought at least 3 Ruger 1911s for the price it cost to build my 80% 1911. After factoring in parts, jigs etc. Was the build worth it? Yes. It was technically "free" to me and I learned a lot about the process. Will I do it again? Only if I can find a much cheaper 1911 kit than the one I used. I think a Polymer80 would be my next one if prices go back to normal.
 
I’ve been slowly building up the tooling needed to do an 80 percent AR lower ( among other projects) using a standard bench top drill press. So far, trying to work out a set up that will allow everything to be completed and end up actually working and not being a gouged up mess is proving to be time consuming and fairly expensive.

Basically, if you have a mill and all the tooling to use it, then doing an 80 percent lower aught to be easy as pie. Trying to cajole multiple tools (none of which are in fact, a milling machine) into behaving like a milling machine is somewhat complicated.
 
The P80 frames are laughably easy to complete. It takes about 20 minutes to drill three holes and Dremel out some plastic. Doing an aluminum AR is another thing entirely. I would rather just pour a dozen Fruity Ghost lowers than do one aluminum one with a drill press.

Someone forgot to mention that to the ATF agent that could not complete on and have a fully functioning and safe pistol in 3 hours.

I am also a member on the Marine Gun Builders forum that is all about building 80% pistols. You would be surprised at all the people that have issues trying to complete a Polymer 80 frame. There are a lot of "bubba the backyard gun wreckers" that are trying to build these without success.
 
The "80%" phenomenon is not about saving money. It is, bluntly speaking, all about being able to have a gun completely "off the books." Yes, I know that some people will say that there is enjoyment simply in doing the build. But would this market even exist without the prime motivator?

The converse of doing an "80%" build is not to build it, and thereby have a dummy, or non-gun. This could be useful if certain categories of guns are outlawed. Transfer their parts to dummy receivers, and you're home free. That is, until the antigunners outlaw the dummy receivers themselves.
 
Basically, if you have a mill and all the tooling to use it, then doing an 80 percent lower aught to be easy as pie. Trying to cajole multiple tools (none of which are in fact, a milling machine) into behaving like a milling machine is somewhat complicated.
I have a wonderful drill press so perhaps my setup is an outlier, but i mill on it regularly. Generally only aluminum or plastic, but I can nibble away at steel provided I do it several passes. I’m not hogging our pockets or anything of the sort, but I made a barrel lug for a contender barrel Saturday and have some aluminum in the vice now to make a sight attachment for an old EMF single action buntline. The biggest regret I have with my setup is buying the cross-slide vice that I bought. It’s a harbor freight special and while it works and is not a terrible vice, it’s too sloppy and I have to work too hard to make it nice and tight before using the feed screws to move my part. A more expensive vice would have had better tolerances, and I am considering building one using my current setup. It helps that I have access to a lot of cheap aluminum scrap.
 
Someone forgot to mention that to the ATF agent that could not complete on and have a fully functioning and safe pistol in 3 hours.

I am also a member on the Marine Gun Builders forum that is all about building 80% pistols. You would be surprised at all the people that have issues trying to complete a Polymer 80 frame. There are a lot of "bubba the backyard gun wreckers" that are trying to build these without success.
I think it took me longer to install the parts (I had never detail stripped a Glock) than it did to do the “machining.”
 
I have a wonderful drill press so perhaps my setup is an outlier, but i mill on it regularly. Generally only aluminum or plastic, but I can nibble away at steel provided I do it several passes. I’m not hogging our pockets or anything of the sort, but I made a barrel lug for a contender barrel Saturday and have some aluminum in the vice now to make a sight attachment for an old EMF single action buntline. The biggest regret I have with my setup is buying the cross-slide vice that I bought. It’s a harbor freight special and while it works and is not a terrible vice, it’s too sloppy and I have to work too hard to make it nice and tight before using the feed screws to move my part. A more expensive vice would have had better tolerances, and I am considering building one using my current setup. It helps that I have access to a lot of cheap aluminum scrap.

I was very nearly in the same boat with the harbor freight cross slide vise. I did a lot of review reading, and although a lot of people completed 80% builds with that specific model, the issues with slop and poor worksmanship ultimately won out. I decided to go with a compound x/y table from Proxxon (available on amazon) to go with my no name (but decent quality. Made in 2002 apparently) Chinese drill press. It came with a pair of simple clamp/ step blocks and so far I’m really liking the quality and function. I did have to drill 8 new holes in the work table and the base of the press (for operations needing more or less room) in order to mount it which was irritating, but not hard. The sticking point now is the work holding equipment. I’m looking out for a very low profile vise that has an appropriate size and mounting footprint so I can actually get to work on the lower. This is the sort of thing where it’s takes time and careful research to avoid buying tools that just won’t work together.
 
Using a drill press as a milling machine is a wonderful way to destroy a drill press and whatever you are working on. Quit being so cheap and just get a milling machine. You can get a light duty machine for under $1000. For $3000 to $6000 you can get one that will do some real work. Here is a crazy idea. When your $50,000 pickup truck gets to be 3 three years old, don't go get a new one. A really nice milling machine and lathe with full set of tooling costs less than a fishing boat and takes up less space.
 
I've only done 80% AR lowers, and while it is definitely time consuming and messy (I use the 80% Arms jig and a router), to me it's worth it given what I paid for the lowers years ago, which is about $30 per lower as I was buying them in bulk. Now of course they're cost prohibitive to me. I'd rather just buy factory lowers. I only had an issue with one, in which the trigger pin and safety selector switch holes got drilled at an ever so slight angle (probably my fault if I didn't have it level), though it is still usable, just annoying to see that. I probably won't run it in the long run though.

I'd only consider buying more if they come way down in price, which may never happen, or they'll get banned outright first. Of course even if that happens, anybody with a proper mill, tooling, blueprints and a block of aluminum....
 
I did it because it was fun.

I think I could have bought a glock 19 for around a hundred bucks more and have a factory reliable pistol with a warranty.

It was still fun.
 
Unless you already have all the tooling and machine equipment and either don’t count your time being worth anything at all, as well as being happy with no finish at all, your not going to come even close to being cheaper.

When everyone and there brother are trying to keep machines running and employees with something to do, finished lowers are cheaper than one can even get one that’s only 80% finished.

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Using a drill press as a milling machine is a wonderful way to destroy a drill press and whatever you are working on.

Truth. Plus a drill chuck/endmill combo makes for a particularly violent shop missile when it flies off. Drill presses don't have a draw bar like a mill to hold the chuck on the spindle, just the tapered interface. A side load can cause the chuck to come loose at speed, especially with a bit of chatter going.
 
Using a drill press as a milling machine is a wonderful way to destroy a drill press and whatever you are working on. Quit being so cheap and just get a milling machine. You can get a light duty machine for under $1000. For $3000 to $6000 you can get one that will do some real work. Here is a crazy idea. When your $50,000 pickup truck gets to be 3 three years old, don't go get a new one. A really nice milling machine and lathe with full set of tooling costs less than a fishing boat and takes up less space.

So don’t trash a $40 drill press, but instead just cough up 3k for a decent mill plus tooling. Suuuure.

Some of us live in apartments and don’t make 50k in a whole year, and so getting a real shop set up isn’t in the cards. Some time in the nearby future maybe. Ultimately you’re right in that the proper tools make a big difference, but sometimes it’s just a fact that you have to make do.
 
Only have a very small,"dog in this fight"...

My only experience isn't an 80%,heck I'd put it more like 10% on a Caspian rough casting 1911 frame.

You're going to haveta/sorta take a blind eye to the tooling costs IF,you like this stuff. We have a pretty durn well equipped machine shop,buying tooling is "how you roll" in this world. I don't buy fixtures,because it's faster just to make the dang thing.

Just an FYI,there are DP's with locking collars to prevent,"tool ejection".... I know because we have a cpl. This isn't saying you should be subjecting their spindle bearings to side loads..... just letting folks know there are such DP's. Both of ours are mint, Walker Turner's from the 40's.

Carry on.
 
I was intrigued by the 80% lowers, but I have not built one because I can simply buy a finished lower, pay a small FFL transfer fee, and be all set with a quality lower, completely anodized/Cerakoted (externally and internally), often with a warranty, and have spent less than I would have if I went with an 80% and done it myself. Compared to Blue Label pricing on Glocks, a Polymer 80% pistol build using the cheapest parts available would have cost me about $100 more than a factory Glock.

To me, the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze. I am confident in my abilities to complete an 80%, but the reality is that I can get a better machined, better finished, less expensive, and warrantied firearm just buying the actual lower or complete firearm.

I am not faulting anyone for going the 80% route as you can definitely learn by doing things yourself. However, if your primary reason for doing an 80% build is cost savings, you will likely fall short.
 
@jmorris my thoughts exactly. I look at the price of 80% and think to myself...why?

Even in today's market I was seeing Anderson's at Primary Arms for $50. So with a $20 transfer one is at $70. In the past one could have got Anderson's on blow out sales for $30.

80% other than someone wanting one off the books, it doesn't make any sense to me. And an 80% lower you have to buy the jig, bits, have a means to use said bits, and then one ends up with raw aluminum in the milled portion at least. So one ends up with an inferior product unless one spends additional time and money on finishing the 80%. Never understood the appeal.
 
Off the books has always made me giggle a bit. There aren’t a bajillion makers so the few makers that sell 80% lowers can be tracked. Your credit card order is enough to indicate that you have purchased the lower, and the other credit card orders for parts indicates that you finished the lower and built the gun. 80% at a gun show paying cash and getting a parts kit with it is the only way to be truly off grid, but in that case your probably better off to just buy a complete gun from somebody wandering around with one over their shoulder. It just seems silly to think that an 80% is completely off record.
 
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