Discharge in Auto Accident

edwardware said:

On the face of it, I can't believe the acceleration of being rear ended discharged the gun; that much acceleration would have spattered you into a chunky mist.

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Getting a striker to drop, in some cases (HK VP9, Walther PPQ, SIG P320 as examples) doesn't take that much effort. Defeating a firing pin safety is another matter.

Having a gun fire, fully cycle, and stay in the holster, that's really something.

I read through this thread but I guess I missed it, has the discharge been verified by locating a hole in something? An empty casing found, a round count to account for all rounds?

3Crows said:

I read through this thread but I guess I missed it, has the discharge been verified by locating a hole in something? An empty casing found, a round count to account for all rounds?

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Not yet.

Hazwaste said:

The Smith chambered the next round.

Didn't look in depth for the shell or hole. ... Both the shell and hole are probably between the driver seat and the transmission tunnel, as there was nothing on the side of the seat. Guess we'll know after the inspection.

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This might possibly explain what happened, if a hole or no fired case found.

The pretensioner mechanism uses an explosive charge to drive a concealed piston when sensors detect the signature abrupt deceleration of an accident. ... This extra seatbelt "pre-" tension, moments prior to the full force of impact, pulls the bodies of the driver and front-seat passenger firmly into their seats.

CaptHank said:

This might possibly explain what happened, if a hole or no fired case found.

The pretensioner mechanism uses an explosive charge to drive a concealed piston when sensors detect the signature abrupt deceleration of an accident. ... This extra seatbelt "pre-" tension, moments prior to the full force of impact, pulls the bodies of the driver and front-seat passenger firmly into their seats.

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I'll bet this is what happened since the OP hasn't verified rounds in his gun yet or if there was a hole in the floorboard.

I really appreciate all the inputs from folks on the explosive charges in seat belt tensioners. I wasn't aware of those. Whether it is the reason for the gun powder smell the OP noticed, I can certainly understand why one would think their firearm had discharged.

hso said:

Was it an EZ version?

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That would seem to make it even less likely, as the impact forces would need to pull the trigger while pressing in the grip safety.
OTOH there is a recall for some S&W EZ serial number ranges that everyone with an Shield EZ should check. Isn't the EZ hammer fired internally?

Dont be embarrassed in the least. Im sure all of us would have been scratching our...heads too.

This is how stuff gets figured out.

My magazine was down a round (7 rounds in an 8 round mag)

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You said there was one in the chamber, unless you topped off the mag after cambering a round for carry, it would seem all rounds have been accounted for.

I looked up the Shield EZ recall https://www.mpshieldezrecall.com/ , sure throws cold water on the "hammer is safer that striker" argument. I still prefer hammer fired pistols, but the gap has narrowed over the years, though I still prefer manual safeties on either.

Hazwaste said:

Well, I'm embarrassed and am going to lose face but I'm not going to weasel away either. I went to the tow yard this morning and looked thoroughly for a shell and a hole, but couldn't find one. My magazine was down a round (7 rounds in an 8 round mag), but given everything else it's clear to me that my Smith probably DIDN'T go off, and that it was probably the explosive belt tensioners. I will delete this thread later today in order to give everyone who commented a chance to see my follow-up. I'm apologize to the group.

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Don’t beat yourself up over it. One’s mind is going 100 miles an hour after an accident and trying to validate or verify every little thing that happened.

Glad you and yours are okay. That is the main thing.

AK103K said:

Dont be embarrassed in the least. Im sure all of us would have been scratching our...heads too.

This is how stuff gets figured out.

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Exactly. We're not picking on you, we're trying to figure out how it happened. It is valuable for all of us.

Hazwaste said:

I went to the tow yard this morning and looked thoroughly for a shell and a hole, but couldn't find one. My magazine was down a round (7 rounds in an 8 round mag), but given everything else it's clear to me that my Smith probably DIDN'T go off, and that it was probably the explosive belt tensioners.

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Your initial assumptions were probably the same that many of us would have had after smelling gun powder and no airbags went off. I'm glad that the gun didn't discharge and it makes a case to not leave a gun laying around unsecured in your vehicle or attached by a magnet where it could go flying around the cabin in an accident. Also, glad you and your wife are OK.

Hazwaste said:

Well, I'm embarrassed and am going to lose face but I'm not going to weasel away either. I went to the tow yard this morning and looked thoroughly for a shell and a hole, but couldn't find one. My magazine was down a round (7 rounds in an 8 round mag), but given everything else it's clear to me that my Smith probably DIDN'T go off, and that it was probably the explosive belt tensioners. I will delete this thread later today in order to give everyone who commented a chance to see my follow-up. I apologize to the group.

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Well, the important thing is you and your wife are ok, and this thread was certainly an interesting discussion and I learned something about seatbelts.

So, nothing to apologize for! Thanks for bringing your experience up.

.455_Hunter said:

why striker guns without manual safeties are more susceptible to unforeseen events than guns carried either with a positive manual safety or full-stroke,

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I've totaled too many car, motorcycle, and atv while carrying a Glock to even consider that a problem. Not on a glock. Ive seen them tossed from helicopter just as a "test" and they didn't defeat the firing pin safety. Not a "GLOCK ONLY" guy. I own most brands. Btw

I've not yet crashed with any other striker fired gun. Lol. Stay tuned.

AMraider said:

Just an FYI some of those seat belt tighteners use an explosive charge to tighten on the buckle

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As a career mechanic and lifetime car guy I've never seen a car that would actually activate the pretensioners without the airbags being deployed. They are to keep you from taking the airbag to the face and position you best for the airbag. Usually just the lock catches in a low speed wreck (or a high speed leaning forward) . They are all speed sensitive. Its highly unlikely that an accident that didn't deploy any airbag would use up the pretensioner.
They are rather cheap and easy to replace and the dodge charger does in fact have them though. So I suppose it's possible. Scan the obd2 system. Or start the car and see if the srs light stays on.

It certainly does sound like that's what happened though.

JR24 said:

If it chambered a round then either you have an obscenely loose holster or the gun, for some amount of time, was most of the way out of the holster

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It would be super unlikely to happen I agree. Something would almost positively stop the cycling. It takes very little finger pressure to stop a a semi auto slide. And even less to slow it.

Hazwaste said:

I went to the tow yard this morning and looked thoroughly for a shell and a hole, but couldn't find one. . . it was probably the explosive belt tensioners.

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Hey, on the bright side, you can feel better about the sidearm!

If you didn't know that explosive tensioners existed, I'm not surprised you confused the report with a firearm report.

Hazwaste said:

Well, I'm embarrassed

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Pat Riot said:

Don’t beat yourself up over it. One’s mind is going 100 miles an hour after an accident and trying to validate or verify every little thing that happened.

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Absolutely. Nothing to be embarrassed about. It's disorienting to say the least. I worked on mustangs for many years. Know every piece of a fox body. Yet one wreck I had where the car ended up upside down, I spent 30 seconds trying to find the key to turn it off. Lol. Eventually I figured out the car was upside down but I was not. I was trying to find the key on the wrong side of the steering wheel. Lol

I recall years ago a friend of mine was in an accident. He said the airbags going off “sounded like a shotgun blast” and he smelled “burnt gunpowder”.

I have heard an airbag deploy (expensive mistake by a mechanic at a dealership) and it did sound like a gun shot.

Apologize? Heck no-I learned a lot from this thread.

I'll also agree that, hearing a 'report', my first thought would have been the firearm, as well. Perfectly natural.

Larry

I was having a hard time buying that the gun would have discharged in that condition, but was trying to keep an open mind. The idea that it could have cycled while in the holster was too much, though. I'm glad I waited until the end to bring out the snark, and I agree that the OP has nothing for which to apologize. I learned from the thread as well and am glad to have seen it.

My best guess is that the collision from the rear triggered the seat belt but not the air bag. We have set off a seat belt tensioner before in a vice. It is loud and quite a violent yank which would explain the bruise. Please don't delete this thread. There is so much to learn from situations like this.

Hazwaste said:

and wouldn't let go even when I ran the seat all the way back. Ended up using my knife to cut the belt.

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And an excellent reason to have a seatbelt cutter in the center console.

Hazwaste said:

I will delete this thread later today

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Actually, please don't, there some really good information in here, even if with a bit of a rabbit hole.

Since you were semi-stopped and then in a reaction rear-end collision, my SAE guy says the impact alignments may have been just enough to only trip some of the safety features (there's apparently a pile pile of calculus on just which angles and loads are best for triggering safety stuff in vehicles; also which one in a sequence, like sides before or after fronts). 10 mph collision is right at 5 Gs, 15 mph jumps to 11 Gs. A 32oz pistol is briefly 160oz, or ten pounds at 5 Gs.

Very understandable that the OP jumped to that conclusion.

Back in the 7o’s I had just bought a new Ithaca model 37 riot shotgun. I was on a road trip with the butt of the gun on the passenger side floor and the rest again the passenger seat.

All of a sudden there was a loud explosion in the car, 1969 GTO. I just KNEW that somehow that shotgun went off. I pulled off of the road and could not find any evidence of such.

For some reason I went into the trunk. The spare tire had EXPLODED! Never figured out the how or why. The spare had never been used before.