How to ship a sold handgun more cheaply?

Status
Not open for further replies.
BreechFace said:
I know this.

This thread is about what's a good way to ship firearms. I provided a link to a means of doing so and others provided another way which is going to an FFL and having them ship it. I'm merely pointing out that there will be FFL transfer fees on both ends of that transaction. So one must weigh the costs of the two options.

Option #1: Ship the firearm yourself to an FFL (only one FFL transfer fee is incurred, on the recipient end)
Option #2: Take firearm to local FFL, pay transfer fee, pay shipping fees and incur another transfer fee on the recipient end
Click to expand...

You won't have the transfer fee on the other end. That's the buyers responsivity. You're paying your FFL to log the transaction and ship. They get special FedEx rates. As was stated an FFL can use USPS but the item may get lost. My FFL has pick up and delivery everyday using FedEx. Anyone who ships USPS is asking for trouble, even an FFL. Those folks have truly been handicapped.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
You won't have the transfer fee on the other end. That's the buyers responsivity. Your paying your FFL to log the transaction and ship. They get special rates.
Click to expand...
There is no "special rate" for gun shipments. USPS/UPS/FedEx/etc may have discounts based on volume of packages shipped, but thats available to any business.


As was stated an FFL can use USPS but the item may get lost. My FFL has pick up and delivery everyday using FedEx. Anyone who ships USPS is asking for trouble.
Click to expand...
For twelve years I've shipped several handguns a week using USPS, never had one go missing. Blanket statements like "______ is better than _____" doesn't take into account that all three (USPS/FedEx/UPS) have their issues. And FYI.......Priority Mail boxes are quite likely to be on a UPS or FedEx airplane or truck at some point.
 
My FFL charges $10.00 plus shipping and what ever insurance I put on it. Last one cost me $29.95 total with $600.00 insurance. My old FFL only charged shipping and insurance, but he died and his daughter lives almost four hours south of me and she inherited the shop, that had to be one heck of a move.
 
BreechFace said:
I know this.

This thread is about what's a good way to ship firearms. I provided a link to a means of doing so and others provided another way which is going to an FFL and having them ship it. I'm merely pointing out that there will be FFL transfer fees on both ends of that transaction. So one must weigh the costs of the two options.

Option #1: Ship the firearm yourself to an FFL (only one FFL transfer fee is incurred, on the recipient end)
Option #2: Take firearm to local FFL, pay transfer fee, pay shipping fees and incur another transfer fee on the recipient end
Click to expand...

Why would the gun have to be transferred to the FFL shipper. He is not receiving the gun, he is only acting as the shipper. I worked in a local shop who would ship your gun via USPS for you for the cost of shipping plus a $10 fee. The gun did not need to be transferred to him. He was merely acting as a shipping agent. Do you have a BATF reference that states he was wrong to do this ?
 
@mnrivrat my post #4 asked the question whether one has to transfer to an FFL as a shipper. I’m ignorant to whether one does or not, never done it. I would’ve thought a transfer would’ve had to take place, given the FFL is possessing the firearm to ship it.
 
dogtown tom said:
There is no "special rate" for gun shipments. USPS/UPS/FedEx/etc may have discounts based on volume of packages shipped, but thats available to any business.

For twelve years I've shipped several handguns a week using USPS, never had one go missing. Blanket statements like "______ is better than _____" doesn't take into account that all three (USPS/FedEx/UPS) have their issues. And FYI.......Priority Mail boxes are quite likely to be on a UPS or FedEx airplane or truck at some point.
Click to expand...

Correct. But not everyone who ships a firearm has a business. I don't.

I'm not aware that USPS has any aircraft, so yeah, they get to ride a UPS or FedEx aircraft if has to go any distance.

I'm surprised that you're talking about winners and losers here without talking about claims and payouts as though nothing ever goes missing. USPS is notoriously difficult to get a settlement from, just had a claim denied, and insurance is expensive. Of course you can insure for full value and ship registered, but I doubt many people who ship USPS do that. Most of those folks are looking for a discount FFL and cheap (priority) shipping rates without insurance.:(
 
Last edited:
BreechFace said:
@mnrivrat my post #4 asked the question whether one has to transfer to an FFL as a shipper.
Click to expand...
Again, read post #8.
If shipping interstate you are required to ship only to an FFL.........and thats a transfer. A transfer requiring receipt by a licensee)
If shipping intrastate, you may ship directly to a resident of your state that you have no reason to believe is otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms. Although USPS cannot accept firearms other than rifles or shotguns, they CAN accept rifles and shotguns. Neither UPS or FedEx accept nonlicensee > nonlicensee intrastate firearm shipments although not prohibited by federal law.
I’m ignorant to whether one does or not, never done it. I would’ve thought a transfer would’ve had to take place, given the FFL is possessing the firearm to ship it.
Click to expand...
Again, if you hand over a firearm to a licensed dealer or manufacturer........its a transfer of possession. It doesn't matter whether you sold, gifted, traded, bartered or handed it to him for repair, its still a lawful transfer of possession. It matters not one bit if he then mails it, ships it UPS/FedEx/USPS or hops on a moped and drives it across the country to deliver directly to the receiving dealer. He is required by federal law to record that transfer as an acquisition in his bound book, and the subsequent disposition to the other dealer.
 
My local dealer charges me a flat rate of $50 to ship a handgun. This is what I do when I sell one. I've paid as much as $130 for UPS. If I'm sending a prized gun to the gunsmith for custom work, I'll just go to the UPS counter 15mins away.

That said, I've had more lost and damaged packages in the last three months than my entire life prior. I've been waiting on a scope I bought through Ebay for a month now.
 
dogtown tom said:
Again, if you hand over a firearm to a licensed dealer or manufacturer........its a transfer of possession. It doesn't matter whether you sold, gifted, traded, bartered or handed it to him for repair, its still a lawful transfer of possession. It matters not one bit if he then mails it, ships it UPS/FedEx/USPS or hops on a moped and drives it across the country to deliver directly to the receiving dealer. He is required by federal law to record that transfer as an acquisition in his bound book, and the subsequent disposition to the other dealer.
Click to expand...

That was my point, it was my thought that anytime a firearm is handed over to a licensed dealer an FFL transfer has to occur.

@mnrivrat stated that he believed this was not the case.

My response in post #33 was to him.

Thank you for clearing that up @dogtown tom. As I said before my only comment into this discussion is the fact that on an out of state transfer there will be transfer fees on both sides. Simple as that. I get that the seller or shipper doesn't personally pay for the FFL transfer on the other side, but never the less there is still cost incurred that would effect the overall value of the transaction. Anyways, I have nothing further to add to this conversation as I believe the original poster already has his question answered.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
Correct. But not everyone who ships a firearm has a business. I don't.
Click to expand...
You don't even need a business.......just sufficient volume of packages shipped to qualify for a discount.



I'm surprised that you're talking about winners and losers here without talking about claims and payouts as though nothing ever goes missing.
Click to expand...
I've not made any mention of "winners and losers"......what the heck are you talking about?o_O
And yes, I've had packages "go missing" for a week, but eventually they arrive. But never one get lost or stolen.

USPS is notoriously difficult to get a settlement from,
Click to expand...
This just in...........UPS and FedEx are MORE difficult. ;)
I've filed claims with USPS/UPS/FedEx.....I'll take USPS any day of the week.


just had a claim denied, and insurance is expensive.
Click to expand...
A denied claim has a reason. Without knowing the reason its hard to sympathize. UPS and FedEx almost always deny a claim for damage because most don't bother reading their TOS. Improper packing materials, a used box, a box not properly taped.....all lawful reasons for denial of a claim. Not to mention denying the claim because you shipped an item that they regulate or prohibit (such as shipping a handgun via Ground).



Of course you can insure for full value and ship registered, but I doubt many people who ship USPS do that.
Click to expand...
"Registered mail" isn't required and I've never felt the need to use it. Insurance protects the shipper from a claim for loss, damage or theft. If the gun doesn't arrive in the condtion as advertised.......that buyer will want his $$$ back. "But, but, but you didn't buy insurance on your purchase!" is meaningless......its not the buyers responsibility.
A surprising number of people have no earthly idea of what it costs to ship a gun. They don't bother using the shipping calculators found on the USPS/FedEx/UPS websites. They are shocked that Buds and Amazon ship free......but a 12lb rifle from Dallas to Los Angeles is going to run $50 in postage alone. Add Adult Sig and $1000 in insurance and you are at $70. They panic because their GunBroker ad said $25 shipping.:uhoh:



Most of those folks are looking for a discount FFL and cheap (priority) shipping rates.:(
Click to expand...
You get what you are paying for. If you ship through your FFL and tell him "I don't needs no insurance, its fo suckas!"..........I'll hand the gun back to you. When I ship, I'M responsible for any claim for loss, damage or theft. Same with those trying to skate on a $2000 gun with "I sold it for $200".:scrutiny:
 
HOWARD J said:
UPS wanted $85 to ship a handgun for repairs.
Gun Mfr was willing to send me a $50 prepaid shipper----i SAID TO HECK WITH IT & REPAIRED THE GUN MYSELF
Click to expand...

Some companies like Ruger and Sig will send you a shipping label if you ask. I know Ruger uses FedEx so you box it up and take it to a FedEx hub. Ruger has just paid your total shipping costs. Thank you.
 
mnrivrat said:
Why would the gun have to be transferred to the FFL shipper. He is not receiving the gun, he is only acting as the shipper.
Click to expand...
Seriously?
Customer hands a gun to the dealer, then goes home. Dealer has that gun in his possession. Why on earth would you think that he doesn't need to record the acquisition?
"Only acting as the shipper" means he took possession and will then ship the gun.



I worked in a local shop who would ship your gun via USPS for you for the cost of shipping plus a $10 fee. The gun did not need to be transferred to him. He was merely acting as a shipping agent.
Click to expand...
Merely a serious violation of ATF regulations. ;)
No to mention the felony that occurs when the dealer ships a firearm other than a rifle or shotgun via USPS. Postal regulations require the dealer to submit a USPS Form 1508 with handgun shipments.

"Merely a shipping agent" is a lame excuse for trying to intentionally ignore the recordkeeping requirements of federal law.


Do you have a BATF reference that states he was wrong to do this ?
Click to expand...

I do.........:D
§478.125 Record of receipt and disposition.
(e) Firearms receipt and disposition by dealers. Each licensed dealer shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms. In addition, before commencing or continuing a firearms business, each licensed dealer shall inventory the firearms possessed for such business and shall record same in the record required by this paragraph. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below. The purchase or other acquisition of a firearm shall, except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded not later than the close of the next business day following the date of such purchase or acquisition. The record shall show the date of receipt, the name and address or the name and license number of the person from whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm. The sale or other disposition of a firearm shall be recorded by the licensed dealer not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a nonlicensee, the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, obtained by the licensed dealer shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from the licensee's Form 4473 file and be readily available for inspection. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensed dealer, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, or the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, serial number if the licensed dealer transferring the firearm serially numbers the Forms 4473 and files them numerically. The format required for the record of receipt and disposition of firearms is as follows....
Click to expand...
 
A denied claim has a reason. Without knowing the reason its hard to sympathize. UPS and FedEx almost always deny a claim for damage because most don't bother reading their TOS. Improper packing materials, a used box, a box not properly taped.....all lawful reasons for denial of a claim. Not to mention denying the claim because you shipped an item that they regulate or prohibit (such as shipping a handgun via Ground).

USPS had a reason. Item was dropped off on the doorstep of the office after business hours. The business has a sign in the drive that clearly states no deliveries after business hours and deliveries should be made to the shipping/receiving warehouse which is on the same property and easy to identify. The business refunded me and said; "I guess we're going to have to lock the gate so USPS will get a clue that we're CLOSED". :)

Companies that do a lot of shipping don't use the USPS for reasons. They get better service with UPS and FedEx. If you happen to be a small business who needs a way to ship a few inexpensive items every week USPS is probably your best bet because they don't charge enough to cover their operating cost. They lost 8.8 billion in 2019. If you believe they're going be responsible when it comes to covering claims I won't wake you up.
 
Last edited:
CoalTrain49 said:
A denied claim has a reason. Without knowing the reason its hard to sympathize. UPS and FedEx almost always deny a claim for damage because most don't bother reading their TOS. Improper packing materials, a used box, a box not properly taped.....all lawful reasons for denial of a claim. Not to mention denying the claim because you shipped an item that they regulate or prohibit (such as shipping a handgun via Ground).
Click to expand...

USPS had a reason. Item was dropped off on the doorstep of the office after business hours. The business has a sign in the drive that clearly states no deliveries after business hours and deliveries should be made to the shipping/receiving warehouse which is on the same property and easy to identify. The business refunded me and said; "I guess we're going to have to lock the gate so USPS will get a clue that we're CLOSED". :)
Click to expand...
Soooooo..........the package was shipped without Signature Confirmation or Adult Signature Required?
In that case, you have no case as USPS did nothing wrong and thats been a standard practice for hundreds of years. My mailbox is on the curb. Rebel Silencers would routinely ignore explict instructions and mail silencers to my premises address........without signature or adult sig. The letter carrier would leave them in the mailbox or in two cases ON TOP of my mailbox (flat rate box wouldn't fit inside). He wasn't doing anything wrong, Rebel was. Maybe thats part of the reason Rebel went south.:rofl:
 
dogtown tom said:
Soooooo..........the package was shipped without Signature Confirmation or Adult Signature Required?
In that case, you have no case as USPS did nothing wrong and thats been a standard practice for hundreds of years. My mailbox is on the curb. Rebel Silencers would routinely ignore explict instructions and mail silencers to my premises address........without signature or adult sig. The letter carrier would leave them in the mailbox or in two cases ON TOP of my mailbox (flat rate box wouldn't fit inside). He wasn't doing anything wrong, Rebel was. Maybe thats part of the reason Rebel went south.:rofl:
Click to expand...


What's wrong with USPS following a companies delivery instructions on their site? You said yourself that Rebel Silencers wasn't following delivery instructions. Delivery instructions need to be followed. It just isn't the shippers instructions that need to be followed. In this case they dumped the package in an unauthorized location. They would have never got a signature conformation because if you deliver to the wrong location there won't be anyone there to sign. The office was closed.
 
dogtown tom said:
For twelve years I've happily accepted guns shipments from nonlicensees.....but that day may be ending soon. Far too many nonlicensees shipping guns with little care and no clue as to how to properly box up a gun to prevent damage.
Click to expand...


Yep too many FFLs will no longer receive from individuals because of associated problems. A few bad apples ruin it for everyone.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
What's wrong with USPS following a companies delivery instructions on their site?
Click to expand...
Nothing is wrong about following the companies instructions. That letter carrier could easily have held that days mail, and returned the next day.
BUT..........no law or USPS regulation says he has to. He delivered the mail.


You said yourself that Rebel Silencers wasn't following delivery instructions.
Click to expand...
Do you not understand the difference between USPS not abiding by a "closed" sign vs the sender shipping to the wrong address? :scrutiny:
When Rebel shipped to my home, the USPS letter carrier didn't break any law by leaving the box unattended. Rebel was just stupid.



Delivery instructions need to be followed. It just isn't the shippers instructions that need to be followed. In this case they dumped the package in an unauthorized location.
Click to expand...
Unauthorized by who? USPS determines where the delivery point is. The business can be closed or have their own "authorized" point of delivery, but the letter carrier doesn't have to abide by that. Ever seen a business that had its doors padlocked by the landlord? Mail will pile up at that door and its perfectly legal.


They would have never got a signature conformation because if you deliver to the wrong location there won't be anyone there to sign. The office was closed.
Click to expand...
Why didn't you mention that in your first post? Signature on delivery means exactly that.......no sig, no delivery. Signature is viewable online. Now.......if you sent the package with Delivery confirmation a signature is not required at all, the letter carrier just makes note that he delivered.
"The business has a sign in the drive that clearly states no deliveries after business hours and deliveries should be made to the shipping/receiving warehouse which is on the same property and easy to identify"...........means nothing. The carrier doesn't have to go anywhere but the location designated by the postal service.
 
dogtown tom said:
Nothing is wrong about following the companies instructions. That letter carrier could easily have held that days mail, and returned the next day.
BUT..........no law or USPS regulation says he has to. He delivered the mail.



Do you not understand the difference between USPS not abiding by a "closed" sign vs the sender shipping to the wrong address? :scrutiny:
When Rebel shipped to my home, the USPS letter carrier didn't break any law by leaving the box unattended. Rebel was just stupid.




Unauthorized by who? USPS determines where the delivery point is. The business can be closed or have their own "authorized" point of delivery, but the letter carrier doesn't have to abide by that. Ever seen a business that had its doors padlocked by the landlord? Mail will pile up at that door and its perfectly legal.



Why didn't you mention that in your first post? Signature on delivery means exactly that.......no sig, no delivery. Signature is viewable online. Now.......if you sent the package with Delivery confirmation a signature is not required at all, the letter carrier just makes note that he delivered.
"The business has a sign in the drive that clearly states no deliveries after business hours and deliveries should be made to the shipping/receiving warehouse which is on the same property and easy to identify"...........means nothing. The carrier doesn't have to go anywhere but the location designated by the postal service.
Click to expand...

And everything you just posted is the reason they lost 8.8 billion dollars in 2019. They cut costs in every area of their operation including delivery and covering claims. My FFL has the same business plan as you do. He ships based on the exact cost of shipping except he uses FedEx. He won't ship USPS because of claim denial. Most businesses that ship a lot use FedEx because of their service. Good service will always cost a little more. ;)
 
CoalTrain49 said:
And everything you just posted is the reason they lost 8.8 billion dollars in 2019. They cut costs in every area of their operation including delivery and covering claims.
Click to expand...
No, the reason the USPS loses $$$ is because they aren't a for profit business....you should know that.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/usps-louis-dejoy-post-office-pelosi-mail-in-ballots-51597687253
Why Does the Post Office “Lose Money”?
There are four big reasons the Postal Service is less profitable than the logistics companies it competes against.
For starters, there is no reason the post office should make money. It is essentially a federal agency with a universal service mandate. It costs the same to mail a letter to rural America as it does within densely populated cities, but publicly traded logistics companies charge more for deliveries to areas off the beaten track.

Second, the USPS, essentially, doesn’t directly control what it costs to mail a letter. Congress, for instance, rolled back a 2-cent stamp-price increase in 2016 because lawmakers decided the Postal Service had recaptured the sales declines associated with the 2008-2009 financial crisis.
The price of a stamp is a political issue. The price to mail a package via either FedEx (ticker: FDX) or United Parcel Service (UPS) is simply a question of competition and strategy.

A third critical factor is that around 2006, lawmakers imposed new expenses on the USPS, in part because it was too profitable.

Finally, blame the internet: Mail volumes are falling. It’s tough for any business to deal with shrinking demand in its largest business segment. Growth helps any business absorb fixed costs and allows management to bring in new, lower-priced labor to help offset legacy liabilities.
Click to expand...









My FFL has the same business plan as you do. He ships based on the exact cost of shipping except he uses FedEx.
Click to expand...
Thats odd, because it costs him easily 2-3 times as much using FedEx Overnight......unless he's violating FedEx's tariffs and shipping handguns Ground........which means FedEx won't honor those claims either.

He won't ship USPS because of claim denial.
Click to expand...
Again, in twelve years, hundreds and hundreds of USPS Priority Mail shipments I've never had a claim denied. Maybe its not USPS, but the dealer.;)


Most businesses that ship a lot use FedEx because of their service. Good service will always cost a little more.
Click to expand...
;)
Not in the gun biz. The overwhelming majority of handguns arrive USPS or UPS. Relatively few arrive here from FedEx.
For me the worst carrier of all is FedEx Ground. They aren't really FedEx, but contractors. They are consistently the worst in my area.
 
dogtown tom said:
No, the reason the USPS loses $$$ is because they aren't a for profit business....you should know that.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/usps-louis-dejoy-post-office-pelosi-mail-in-ballots-51597687253











Thats odd, because it costs him easily 2-3 times as much using FedEx Overnight......unless he's violating FedEx's tariffs and shipping handguns Ground........which means FedEx won't honor those claims either.


Again, in twelve years, hundreds and hundreds of USPS Priority Mail shipments I've never had a claim denied. Maybe its not USPS, but the dealer.;)


;)
Not in the gun biz. The overwhelming majority of handguns arrive USPS or UPS. Relatively few arrive here from FedEx.
For me the worst carrier of all is FedEx Ground. They aren't really FedEx, but contractors. They are consistently the worst in my area.
Click to expand...


I guess any FFL can ship however they want regardless of cost if his/her customer wants to pay the freight for the prescribed method of shipping. You seem to think that your customers benefit from your use of USPS. My FFL uses FedEx because he's rural and he feels they give him better service. The nearest PO is 14 miles away so that may have something to do with it. The USPS carrier may also have something to do with it, IDK.

I do know that Buds Guns uses FedEx so whatever works for you.
 
BreechFace said:
That was my point, it was my thought that anytime a firearm is handed over to a licensed dealer an FFL transfer has to occur.

@mnrivrat stated that he believed this was not the case.

My response in post #33 was to him.

Thank you for clearing that up @dogtown tom. As I said before my only comment into this discussion is the fact that on an out of state transfer there will be transfer fees on both sides. Simple as that. I get that the seller or shipper doesn't personally pay for the FFL transfer on the other side, but never the less there is still cost incurred that would effect the overall value of the transaction. Anyways, I have nothing further to add to this conversation as I believe the original poster already has his question answered.
Click to expand...

That is NOT a fact. If I ship directly to the buyer's FFL, there is no transfer fee on my end.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
Companies that do a lot of shipping don't use the USPS for reasons. They get better service with UPS and FedEx. If you happen to be a small business who needs a way to ship a few inexpensive items every week USPS is probably your best bet because they don't charge enough to cover their operating cost. They lost 8.8 billion in 2019. If you believe they're going be responsible when it comes to covering claims I won't wake you up.
Click to expand...

Agree; my wife makes and sells jewelry on Etsy - she ships half dozen or so small parcels every week to all corners of the globe they all go USPS in padded envelopes. Cheapest way to go.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
  • Locked
Shipping charges on handguns
Replies
12
Views
686
JShirley
JShirley
S
  • Locked
Handgun Shipping
Replies
19
Views
977
mgmorden
mgmorden
R
  • Locked
Shipping Handguns - Mississippi
Replies
5
Views
462
EOD Guy
E
Bottom Gun
  • Locked
Cost of shipping handguns
Replies
17
Views
935
Fatelvis
Fatelvis
N
  • Locked
Best way to get a shipping quote?
Replies
3
Views
299
nofishbob
N
Back
Top