Vermont Supreme Court upholds historic gun control law - High capacity magazines

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I took courses in Constitutional Law. Former President Obama took a courses in Constitutional Law. My opinion is that it is to be taken in it's plain sense whenever possible and is still a relevant document. Obama's opinion is that it is to be taken as "living document" subject to reinterpretation and that it is an "antique" and "hindrance" to effective government. We are currently engaged in a "civil war of words" as it were as to which option will prevail. What is most interesting to me is that a Constitutional scholar like Alan Dershowitz, liberal Democrat, is the champion of my opinion. I am a conservative. Go figure.
 
Dershowitz also wants to get rid of the Second. Whether he is a liberal is debated.
 
He wants to get rid of it by Constitutional means not by reinterpreting it. He says he is a liberal I take him at his word...Has he told you differently?
 
...What is most interesting to me is that a Constitutional scholar like Alan Dershowitz, liberal Democrat, is the champion of my opinion.

So you now claim that nine words which you attribute to Alan Dershowitz (without citing a source to authenticate that attribution), out whole body of his public statements and published works, means that he supports you? Really now!
 
So you now claim that nine words which you attribute to Alan Dershowitz (without citing a source to authenticate that attribution), out whole body of his public statements and published works, means that he supports you?

I spent several hours listening to him on C SPAN and other media outlets. Did you?

FWIW: He said that one of his best students ever at Harvard Law School was Ted Cruz.
Go figure!
Also said that his family wanted him to change his last name if he was going to defend Trump in first impeachment.
 
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I spent several hours listening to him on CSPAN and other media outlets. Did you?

So what? That is not evidence probative of your claim. If you cannot cite verifiable, credible evidence or legal authority (statutes/case law) to support your claim, the reasonable inference is that your claim is not true.

By the way, I spent 30+ years practicing law. Did you?
 
I just want to thank everyone that participated in this thread for staying on track. I read all the way to post 62, and it wasn't closed. I am impressed! Jerry, that is one state to the east . ;-)
 
If folks don’t want it closed, let’s avoid insulting people on political orientation. Such deleted and if repeated , infracted. It’s been a good thread , but after awhile such comments will close it.
 
let’s avoid insulting people on political orientation.
Honestly I don't think anyone has.

We can all hope that the Vermont decision gets a full hearing elsewhere. I would really be more interested in why the decision was made. In other words, why is restriction on magazine capacity considered appropriate? Sometimes why a particular court made the decision it did is telling. Each judge sometimes issues a brief stating why they made the decision.
 
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Honestly I don't think anyone has.

We can all hope that the Vermont decision gets a full hearing elsewhere. I would really be more interested in why the decision was made. In other words, why is restriction on magazine capacity considered appropriate? Sometimes why a particular court made the decision it did is telling. Each judge sometimes issues a brief stating why they made the decision.

Has the SCOTUS ever heard a case dealing with magazine capacity? I thought they have refused to hear any of them
 
Seems like they would have to sooner or later. Like 9th Circuit struck down restriction and Vermont court upheld it. Wonder where, if at all, it will end up?

For example. I just picked up a Savage 110 Tactical. Comes with a 10 round magazine. So if I lived in Vermont it would be illegal and California it would not? Confusing.
 
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Let's be clear - I deleted some.

I'll give you an example:

Say liberals are illiterate - it's deleted
Say conservatives are illiterate - it's deleted

Continue to do that, and you can be deleted. We have members who are liberal and conservative. We promote pro gun folks.

It's that simple.

VT - The law also sets limits for magazine sizes at 15 rounds for handguns and 10 rounds for long guns. Thus, the gun is legal in VT.
 
As a Vermonter who has watched all this unfold perhaps I can add some information and perspective.

First some background. For the longest time Vermont was a conservative state with some of the least restrictive firearm regulations in the nation. On the rare occasions an anti-gun bill was proposed it never gained much traction, and often the bill’s sponsor saw their political career fade. But as with other states, the demographics and political leanings of some regions of the state changed over the years, and this was seen even more disproportionately in the state legislature. Still, the right governor or committee chairman in the right place at the right time blocked most gun bills and life went on. Complacency was the norm, even though the local and state gun-right groups gave warnings.

Two days after the 2018 Parkland shooting Vermont officials uncover a youth’s written plan and notes about steps taken to shoot up a school. The moderate Republican Governor is rattled and says all gun control measures on are the table. That was all the anti-gun legislators needed. They dusted off their various plans and things were pushed through by April. We ended up with UBCs (with some family exceptions), long gun purchases restricted to 21 and older (unless you had a hunter safety card), and magazine restrictions (10 rds for long guns, 15 rds for handguns). An important note is that magazines with capacities over these limits that were already in someone’s possession were grandfathered in and legal to possess and use. The fact that the law did not go into effect for 6 months meant that a huge number of magazines were being purchased out of state or online. Once the law went into effect you could not legally bring higher capacity mags into the state, nor were you allowed to possess mags that were obtained after the law went into effect. You can see what kind of muddled mess this could be from an enforcement standpoint. Two different 30 round mags, one purchased in 2017 and the other brought in from a neighboring state in 2019. One’s legal, one isn’t.

Meanwhile… a self-admitted white supremacist is harassing an African-American state legislator. Things escalate, but he keeps it just under the threshold for being able to be charged with anything. But he has firmly landed on the Attorney General’s radar. So when his ex-wife reports that he went to neighboring New Hampshire, bought some 30 rounds mags (with a credit card…), and brought them home, Vermont law enforcement was able to pull together a case. He says the law is unconstitutional and it works its way through the system to the Vermont Supreme Court. The California ruling was viewed as a positive sign, but unfortunately it didn’t work out that way.

As one pro-gun person said, this was not the test-case we wanted, but it is the one we got. Would it have been a different outcome if a competitive shooter moved to Vermont and wasn’t allowed to bring his higher capacity mags with him? Hard to say.

A final note. The same governor who signed the above noted gun bills subsequently vetoed a waiting period, stating that he thinks Vermont’s gun laws are now adequate to protect people. Which is good considering the number of gun bills being discussed and/or introduced. So a word of caution to those in other states who might say “Gun control—that will never happen here”. Incremental change over time combined with some sort of precipitating event can change things quickly.
 
So a word of caution to those in other states who might say “Gun control—that will never happen here”. Incremental change over time combined with some sort of precipitating event can change things quickly.

I hear ya. Thanks for the information. Political climate at any given time does impact court decisions.
 
... I would really be more interested in why the decision was made....

The first post in this thread included this link to the full text of the Vermont Supreme Court's decision. That decision (actually called, in the terminology of the law, an opinion) will explain how and why the court ruled as it did.

... Sometimes why a particular court made the decision it did is telling. Each judge sometimes issues a brief stating why they made the decision.

First:
The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name. (K'ung-fu-tzu)

Appellate courts will almost always write a detailed statement, called an opinion, explaining why and how a particular ruling was made. Sometimes a judges/justices who agrees with a result, but for reasons different from those of the other judges/justices, will write a concurring opinion. And sometimes a judges/justices who disagrees with a result will write a dissenting opinion explaining why.

These opinions are published.They may be found in bound volumes in law libraries or in various on-line, legal databases. They form the body of "case law" which can be binding precedent which will be followed by lower courts in the same court system.

Briefs are written arguments by lawyers representing parties in an appeal addressed to the appellate court arguing why the court should rule in a particular way.
 
Re Alan D.

I believe he has said just the opposite. He doesn't want to change 2A.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...mendment-an-absurd-thing-in-our-constitution/

We have tried an experiment for the last 250 years and it’s failed miserably and we have to start a new approach. The new approach has to be guns should not be available to people generally, except if they have a significant need.

If I could write the Bill of Rights over again, I would skip amendment number two. We’re the only country in the world that puts in our Constitution the right to bear arms. It’s an absurd thing to be in our Constitution, but it’s in our Constitution. We have to live with it.

------- Article continues.

He then referenced the attack that killed two people in the Grand Theatre in Lafayette, Louisiana, saying, “Guns have to be well regulated and they are not well regulated in this country. We’re going to have these kinds of massacres over and over and over again until we change the gun culture and the National Rifle Association is part of the problem, not part of the solution.”

Let's not discuss him anymore but keeping the record straight.
 
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