Are Gun Owners Selfish.....

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As power corrupts, money corrupts. I would like to see what such large amounts of money would be used for? Funneling it to politicians is not attractive. There is enough money in the system to fund their campaigns. None of the current losers were short of funds?

Could the money be used to some kind of national campaign for messaging outside of the choir to bring more folks around to supporting the RKBA?

The correlation of gun rights with one side of the political divide is the elephant in the room. Pouring more money to elect politicians of a strain you don't agree with (except for their RKBA support - which is usually tenuous in the clutch) isn't attractive.

Thus, more money is not a solution - a strategy for an expansive support for the 2nd Amendment is needed.
 
People that run Organizations that raise money for what ever in this country ( and probably every other country in the world) are more interested in what goes into their pockets than anything else. Non-Profit only means they pocket more or spend on luxuries for themselves. Sorry, that's the way I have learned to see it in my many years. You " Can Not " expect to pay someone else to stand up for Your Rights if you will not do it Yourself.
 
As power corrupts, money corrupts. I would like to see what such large amounts of money would be used for? Funneling it to politicians is not attractive. There is enough money in the system to fund their campaigns. None of the current losers were short of funds?

Could the money be used to some kind of national campaign for messaging outside of the choir to bring more folks around to supporting the RKBA?

The correlation of gun rights with one side of the political divide is the elephant in the room. Pouring more money to elect politicians of a strain you don't agree with (except for their RKBA support - which is usually tenuous in the clutch) isn't attractive.

Thus, more money is not a solution - a strategy for an expansive support for the 2nd Amendment is needed.

Agreed. Gun Rights could be apolitical, but unfortunately currently isn't. Changing that may be the single best way to protect those rights.
 
~85million or so gun owners in the US. At $50 per person (about a single box of 9mm right now) that’s 4.2 Billion dollars a year that could be used to fight for our rights.
There are a lot of gun owners in the U.S. but relatively few activist gun owners.

Contributions are just one side of the equation. Just as important is how the money is spent. And there is a lot of "leakage" between the inflow and the outflow.

I hate being used as a mark in a grift.
 
Several things come to mind, one is that all humans are selfish, some just much more so than others. So we form our own base lines and judge from that, and every one is better that their base line.

another thing is $50 a year is much, much less than I normally give to pro 2A organizations in a year, I suspect that’s true for most here.


We cannot ignore the very real disconnect that there are from 40-80 million (perhaps more, we'll never know) gun owners in the US, but only about 4-8 million are motivated to be active in gun rights organizations.

This is another thing and it’s highly unlikely to change. Most gun owners are casual (for lack of a better word) gun owners and that’s not going to change, they just don’t care enough to be donating money.
For example, I smoke cigars, fine, hand rolled, premium cigars. While not as public, big brother is an enemy of the entire tobacco industry. I probably should give some money to the cigar industry advocates, yes a few exist. But honestly I don’t care THAT much.
Same thing is true with old muscle cars, some people want them only as museum pieces because they’re such polluters, not only can I not care about everything, I also can’t finance everything.


And the last thing that comes to mind, is your really making a moral argument, which is basically
We wold be better off we’d take a $50 and send to fight for gun rights rather than buy a box of ammo.... well according to The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations approximately 8,500 children die everyday from “improper nutrition” (AKA starvation/malnutrition) so one could argue.... well you see how this could go on forever.
 
people are selfish

Yes, but they can be selfish and altruistic by turns.

Well what if gun owners took just $50 of that money and gave it to a gun rights group, rather than spend it on themselves to buy guns and ammo?

I've been encouraging this every time we fly into a panic and people start stockpiling.

1. Do you think your money is better spent to purchase firearms and ammunition for yourself, family, or friends?

2. Do you think some of that money, say $50, would be better served going to gun rights organizations and congressmen/women to preserve the rights for all Americans?

And it is shocking to think that $50 from each of us would power the work of the people trying to protect our rights instead of stampeding to the gun shop to pay panic prices.

But as I pointed out not long ago, many are satisfied to reap the benefits of the work others do.
 
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I find that a LOT of people are lazy when it comes to causes like gun rights. Case in point, we had a power grab a few years ago by our AG in Massachusetts which ended up banning the sales of all new ARs and AKs. A "massive" rally was planned and broadcasted to all corners of the state to protest. A conservative guess is that there are several hundred thousand gun owners in the state. The day of the rally came and less then 3,000 people showed up. Most gun owners were either too lazy or thought they had something better to do instead of showing up to the rally. The rally was good, but it could have been so much better. Of course the AG just ignored 3,000 disgruntled gun owners and the power grab succeeded. People then complain that they can't buy new ARs or AKs. My basic response is that it's your own damn fault.

As to being selfish. Yep, I'm selfish about a lot of things, but not when it comes to my gun rights. I give regularly to our grass roots organizations like Gun Owners Action League and Comm2A. They are actively fighting for our rights at the local level. I'm done with the NRA for now. Until Wayne is booted and new blood is put in place I will not give money to them again. They are a money drain with little to no positive effects to show for it.
 
And the last thing that comes to mind, is your really making a moral argument, which is basically
We wold be better off we’d take a $50 and send to fight for gun rights rather than buy a box of ammo.... well according to The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations approximately 8,500 children die everyday from “improper nutrition” (AKA starvation/malnutrition) so one could argue.... well you see how this could go on forever.
This isn’t about starving children in other countries. This is about our 2A rights in our country. Though if you wanted to make some kind of argument about that, if the people have the ability to keep their government in check, you would be less likely to have a government starve its people.
Thus, more money is not a solution - a strategy for an expansive support for the 2nd Amendment is needed.
Is that going to be done for free? Any suggestions?

The correlation of gun rights with one side of the political divide is the elephant in the room. Pouring more money to elect politicians of a strain you don't agree with (except for their RKBA support - which is usually tenuous in the clutch) isn't attractive.
So I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Is a vote for the protection of the 2A not a vote for the protection of the rest of our Constitutional rights? If giving money to a candidate because they have a history of support for the 2nd Amendment isn’t attractive, because supposedly, it’s usually tenuous in the clutch, then what is attractive? Would a solid financial backing not make their 2A vote less tenuous?
 
Not selfish, but apathetic, uninvolved-and lazy. I recall back in 1978 when the voters of California approved Proposition 13 it was noted there was a 70% voter turnout-in a primary. Here in NJ people are always complaining about high taxes, corruption, bloated government, but in the 2017 gubernatorial election there was a 44% turnout.
 
Gunowners also clearly know that Cancel Culture is very, very real.
People can lose excellent jobs if revealed as a firearms enthusiast.
Yet another reason good people may carefully weigh how they participate.
 
Donating $50 to SAF or your state 2A organization isn't going to subject you to any risk. It is too simple to make those donations anonymously for that to be a good excuse.

Want to donate without any link back to you? Go through an intermediary like Western Union or Zoom.com. Use Amazon Smile to make your purchases on Amazon contribute to SAF or Knife Rights. Find out if your LGS participates in the state 2A organization or Friends of NRA or ... and give the money through them.
 
Regrettably, it seems as though only about one out of every ten gun owners that I know are actually concerned about the RKBA.

I don't know that's it as much about being selfish as it is about being simply ignorant.

Elephant in the room: many, many American gun owners, hunters and shooters simply either don't know, or can't believe - for whatever reasons --, that our gun rights are currently in dire jeopardy.
 
You know, just, what marbles, OP.

WE, the Gun Owners, are selfish ? Wayne and his herd of trough snufflers, on the NRA B.O.D. take our money, for this cause they supposedly also believe in, getting insane salaries, wearing designer suits, and driving Benzs and BMWs around, while we gun owners struggle along, to make a living, dressed like paupers, and drive 15 year old pickup trucks, and WE'RE "selfish" ?

HOKAY...
 
Regrettably, it seems as though only about one out of every ten gun owners that I know are actually concerned about the RKBA.

I don't know that's it as much about being selfish as it is about being simply ignorant.

Elephant in the room: many, many American gun owners, hunters and shooters simply either don't know, or can't believe - for whatever reasons --, that our gun rights are currently in dire jeopardy.

In my opinion, those people are right. And if you feel they are wrong, please explain how our gun rights - not just our semi-auto-AR rights, not our bump-stock rights, not our 100-round-magazine rights, but all our gun rights - are in currently in dire jeopardy. Personally, I think so many things are higher on Washington's agenda than messing with gun rights that they won't even get to all of them in four years.

Oh, and if you are going to mention HR 127, I will refer you to Beau of the Fifth Column's YouTube video on the subject:

It's only four minutes long.
 
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In my opinion, those people are right. And if you feel they are wrong, please explain how our gun rights - not just our semi-auto-AR rights, not our bump-stock rights, not our 100-round-magazine rights, but all our gun rights - are in currently in dire jeopardy. Personally, I think so many things are higher on Washington's agenda than messing with gun rights that they won't even get to all of them in four years.
I rest my case.

If one doesn't -- or cannot -- believe that all our gun rights in this country are in dire jeopardy, one simply hasn't been paying attention. The fact that we have members of this very forum that don't understand the depths of our current situation should adequately answer the OP's question... and go a long way in confirming the speculation that takes place in every RKBA thread on every firearms discussion forum on the internet.
 
I rest my case.

If one doesn't -- or cannot -- believe that all our gun rights in this country are in dire jeopardy, one simply hasn't been paying attention. The fact that we have members of this very forum that don't understand the depths of our current situation should adequately answer the OP's question... and go a long way in confirming the speculation that takes place in every RKBA thread on every firearms discussion forum on the internet.

So, if I understand what you are saying, you cannot explain how our gun rights are currently in dire jeopardy. That suggests you can't, because they aren't. Or, I guess, you can't be bothered to take the time to make a case for your opinion. How selfish of you!
 
So, if I understand what you are saying, you cannot explain how our gun rights are currently in dire jeopardy.
Don't watch or read the news much these days, eh? Bothered to read the DNC platform prior to November 3rd? Missed Biden's press conference the other day? Familiar with someone named Kamala Harris? Chuck Shumer? Nancy Pelosi?

I live in a state where our gun rights have been drastically eroded just since 2014. Many of us here also (Virginia residents, feel free to chime in) have seen this happening.

You may want to read DC Dalton's regular posts in the Legal sub-forum, just a hint -- it could give you what we call a "clue" into what's going on in every state legislature and the U.S. Congress these days.

Last time I was in SE Wisconsin, we had cable and satellite TV available. Pity some don't want to avail themselves of the opportunity to get their heads out of the sand...
 
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You know, just, what marbles, OP.

WE, the Gun Owners, are selfish ? Wayne and his herd of trough snufflers, on the NRA B.O.D. take our money, for this cause they supposedly also believe in, getting insane salaries, wearing designer suits, and driving Benzs and BMWs around, while we gun owners struggle along, to make a living, dressed like paupers, and drive 15 year old pickup trucks, and WE'RE "selfish" ?

HOKAY...
How many times do I have to say it’s not about the NRA?? You didn’t even read the thread. :thumbup:
 
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How many times do I have to say it’s not about the NRA?? You didn’t even read the thread. :thumbup:
I got what you're saying. As I noted in post #40:
Regrettably, it seems as though only about one out of every ten gun owners that I know are actually concerned about the RKBA.

I don't know that's it as much about being selfish as it is about being simply ignorant.

Elephant in the room: many, many American gun owners, hunters and shooters simply either don't know, or can't believe - for whatever reasons --, that our gun rights are currently in dire jeopardy.
A subsequent poster has affirmed my statements.
 
You don't have to put all your eggs in one basket.

I agree with the folks who are furious with the NRA's stewardship of our past donations. For this reason they will only be getting my basic membership dues unless and until a lot of changes happen.

SAF on the other hand is doing a great job for us in the courts and I'm now a life member.

Also my state organization, Arizona Citizens Defense League, is a totally volunteer organization that has done and continues to do fantastic work on the legislation side, so I donate more than just my membership fee to them as well.

And I also donate to Second Amendment supporters running for office, including many in other states.
 
Selfish? Yes.

But show me a gun rights group that is actually trying to change the perspective of the masses and educate them about firearms' ownership, and perhaps I'll donate to them.
Gotta agree with that. Too often, IMHO, 'gun rights groups' are more inclined to pigeon hole people and call them names, rather than try to make the tent larger.

As for all these 'new gun owners'...I'll be willing to bet 'many/most' don't even know what the 2A is. They know they want personal protection, and with a clean record and a credit card, they can get it.

And for supporting elected people who support the 2A..what if that person is BSCrazy?? Not a zero sum, either/or...situation, NOT black or white but a zillion shades of gray.
 

Not the only players in the defense of 2A/RKBA with a track record. I fear people are using the NRA as a red herring for why they don't support the 2A.


Too often, IMHO, 'gun rights groups' are more inclined to pigeon hole people and call them names, rather than try to make the tent larger.

Very true, but that doesn't mean that there no other options. There are pro 2A organizations that aren't being narrow minded. Look at SAF, Pink Pistols, National African American Gun Association, and the local organizations that fit the need. This false dilemma claiming there's no alternative to the NRA is a deflection from the OP of why we aren't supporting RKBA with money and time.

People keep throwing up smoke screens of why they don't contribute to the effort when there are plenty of alternatives out there. On the one hand, I don't understand it, but I'm experienced enough with my own personal excuse making to get it as well. Much of what I do for RKBA is done by reminding myself the objective is defending the 2A and that if I don't go ahead and try how do I expect others to make any effort either.
 
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