Model 27 date quandary

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Charger426

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Hi all, new member with a dom question.
I realize that this topic has been well covered but I have a question regarding a model 27 recently purchased.
It is a true Model 27 ( no dash).
The serial number - S218xxx.
My research dates this to early 1961.
How can this be if the model 27- 1 came about in 1960 and the 27-2 came out in 1961?
Thanks
 
If your research is correct as to the year it is possible the factory was still using up pre -1 or -2 parts when yours was assembled. Also I believe the dates found for S&W are more like ship dates not build dates. Yours could have been built earlier and sat on a shelf at the factory.
Or I could be totally wrong. Who knows.
BTW welcome to THR.
 
That is actually fairly common. The dash 1 change didnt last long before dash 2 came along. S&W would forge frames in batches then set aside what they didn’t need right away. The model 27 was the S&W Cadillac at the time and was expensive so they probably didn’t always sell fast. Frame was likely forged then not assembled until later
 
I had a pre 29 44 magnum 4-screw that was Jenks dated to early 1957. Lots of N-frame 5-screws dated to later than that.
They didn't always practice "first in, first out."
 
What is the mechanical configuration?
How many screws?
The fifth screw was deleted shortly before model numbers were assigned; a 27 or 27-1 should be a 4 screw, a 27-2 is a 3 screw.
What thread on the extractor rod? A 27 or earlier has right hand threads, 27-1 and later have left hand threads so cylinder rotation keeps it screwed in.

As said, they were not real careful about markings or fifo inventory.
I know it was terribly inconsiderate of them, but they had no consideration for collectors and speculators to come 60 years later.
 
Howdy Charger426

I use the same source Pat Riot is using as my go to source of information about Smith and Wesson revolvers, the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, by Supica and Nahas. I am actually using the 3rd Edition, he is using the 4th Edition. I like the way the information is presented better in the 3rd Edition, but the info we are referring to has not changed.

As can be seen, the Serial number range for S Prefix N frames for 1960-1961 was S207000 through S219999. That puts your SN of S218xxx kind of in the middle. No telling exactly where without knowing the exact SN. No, don't bother posting it if you don't want to, but just to make things simpler I always substitute Xs for the last two digits, not three. Makes things a little bit easier to zero in on.

It says right up front in Appendix 2, the section dealing with Serial Numbers, and I quote:

"It is VITALLY IMPORTANT(their caps, not mine) to realize that it is IMPOSSIBLE (their caps again) to identify the production years of any single gun using these tables alone. Smith and Wesson revolvers were not necessarily assembled nor shipped in serial number sequence. Guns with sequential serial numbers can be found which were actually shipped decades apart. This seems to be especially true of early N frames and the M&P models. At best these tables may indicate probable production era for a particular gun."

Supica and Nahas consulted multiple sources to come up with the data in those tables, but they go on to say the only way to verify exactly when a particular gun shipped is to get a factory letter. Unfortunately, last time I checked Factory Letters have gone up considerably from the $30 quoted in my copy of SCSW. Last time I checked they are $100 now.

Also, bear in mind, if you letter your revolver, the only thing it will tell you, other than where it shipped and a nice history of the model, is when it shipped, not when it was manufactured.

Regarding the information about dash numbers in the section under the Model 27, the dates listed are only years. No clue as to what day and month a particular dash number started. And dash numbers could vary in date across different models. Very generally speaking, as significant engineering changes were made, for instance dropping the number of screws, or reversing the direction of the thread on an extractor rod, it sometimes took a couple of years for those changes to trickle down to all models. So a Model XX might have dropped the 5th screw at dash 2 while Model XY dropped it at dash 3.

My Model 27 no dash, SN S1865XX, left the factory in 1959. The reason I know this is not from the tables, which do verify that information, but because Roy Jinks, the S&W historian told me so.

Interestingly enough, it came with an earlier box labeled The 357 Magnum, from before Model 27 days. S&W never threw anything out if they thought they might be able to use it. This box was originally marked for a nickel plated 357 Magnum but was relabeled to match my blued Model 27 no dash.

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Hey Driftwood,
Nice piece of hardware.
My serial number is S2186xx.
Not sure why to leave off digits either.
Just seems to be what people do.
What could somebody possibly do with your full serial number?
To Mr Watson, the model 27 is a 4 screw with 6" barrel. Right hand threads on ejector rod. Wide target hammer, magna grips serial numbered to gun. Not sure what all mechanical features would be.
Thanks again
 
The BEST way is to obtain a letter from Roy Jinks (costs $100) the S&W Historian. That will tell you where and when it was shipped.
 
Makes sense, but I'm in Canada,
If you own restricted (handguns) you can't take a piss without the gov't knowing about it.
 
The BEST way is to obtain a letter from Roy Jinks (costs $100) the S&W Historian. That will tell you where and when it was shipped.
The ONLY way to know for sure is a letter. The book lists serial number ranges and dates based on Ship dates, not production dates. They did not ship in serial number order.
The book may say that S/N's 2000-4000 shipped in years X and Y, but that doesn't have to mean that number 2008 was the eighth gun shipped in year X. It could have gotten buried under 1900+ other frames and ended up being assembled and shipped as the first gun in year Z.
 
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The ONLY way to know for sure is a letter. The book lists serial number ranges and dates based on Ship dates, not production dates. They did not ship in serial number order.
The book may say that S/N's 2000-4000 shipped in years X and Y, but that doesn't have mean that number 2008 was the eighth gun shipped in year X. It could have gotten buried under 1900+ other frames and ended up being assembled and shipped as the first gun in year Z.
Exactly right and that is not that rare of an occurrence.
 
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