I was running it in a seecamp so I couldn't use FMJ. The heavier FMJ will certainly out penetrate the SJHP. My experience shooting small game with RN vs SWC tells me I'd prefer even a little expansion so long as there's sufficient penetration. Doubt ammo choice is gonna make a difference anyway,but it's one of the few variables we actually have control over.
Thoughts on .32ACP pocket pistols
- Thread starter brutus51
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Mauser lover
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Exactly, to both parts. I had a guy just today tell me that he carries a NAA revolver because it will work if he needs it to (just like a .32). Which it will. But the target size for it to have the same effect as the 9mm is significantly smaller than the target size for the 9mm, and who knows what that bullet will do after it hits something. Oh, and don't forget that area of a circle is (pi)(r)(r). I still recommend that folks carry a .32 if that's the biggest they can manage (for whatever reason).
Ignition Override
Member
If you can keep an accumulation of lint etc out of them, why not carry a .32 in a pocket, if you can quickly pull them out while lying prone with very tight pockets etc?
.32, .45 in a holster, whatever.......
To prepare a bit for the extremely common tactic--from a blind spot (thugs are street smart: why would they go by
Your rules?)--
of being punched, hit with a stick, or otherwise assaulted With No Time To Reach For Any Gun, >> while blocking and using both
hands <<<,
I began actual classes in Krav Maga self-defense over a year ago, when I was 64 years old. Will save that for another discussion (pm me for any questions about Krav or Sauer 38H)
.32, .45 in a holster, whatever.......
To prepare a bit for the extremely common tactic--from a blind spot (thugs are street smart: why would they go by
Your rules?)--of being punched, hit with a stick, or otherwise assaulted With No Time To Reach For Any Gun, >> while blocking and using both
hands <<<,I began actual classes in Krav Maga self-defense over a year ago, when I was 64 years old. Will save that for another discussion (pm me for any questions about Krav or Sauer 38H)
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TTv2
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It's a thought I have and one I'll have to think more on, but I'd seriously like to know how often has someone has had to shoot someone in self defense thru their side which meant they had to shoot thru the attackers arm.
The two cases where I can see that not happening is if the attacker is lunging at the victim with his arms out or where the victim is on the ground having been knocked over and has to shoot up, in which the bullet may have to go thru the attackers pelvis.
In the event of those situations, solid .32 ACP bullets like FMJ or the Lehigh are more than capable of going 12 inches deep in gel. For everything else a JHP would work fine, but the issue with .32 ACP and short barrels is the hollow points don't expand.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
My Tomcat frame cracked too. Apparently, slide cracks arent unheard of either.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
If you get one, check very carefully that any included magazines are factory parts. Since the original magazines are worth $150+/- unscrupulous sellers will replace them with aftermarket units and sell the originals seperately.
Paul R Zartman
Contributing Member
I had a old 32 with cracks in front hinge frame, still shot straight, old gunsmith told me to shoot it till it broke...I sold it to him
I have a Bobcat 22, trying to get another tomcat (crackless)...hope it works out. Not gonna shoot the new Tomcat as much. Hopefully it won't crack
If the attacker is holding a weapon, or is reaching, to his front, a defender’s bullets may encounter arms and hands, or even strike the weapon. Two of my LE colleagues, personally known to me, were hit in their arms and/or hands. (I hope that I comprehended your post correctly; my brain is a bit foggy with fatigue, as I am trying to monitor things, in this big, nasty winter storm.)
The FBI shootout, in southern FL, with Platt and Mattix, resulted in multiple agents being hit in the arms and/or hands. Of course, Platt took that infamous hit, through his upper arm, into his torso, though that was fired from flanking direction, by Agent Dove. Arm and hand hits are happening, often, if one pays attention to the incidents. The FBI incident is an example that is easily searched, on the internet. While it was an LE incident, we could factor-out who was “good” or “bad,” and flip it to a case of two guys “defending” themselves against “road ragers,” or hijackers, and, we can also break it down into individual contests between specifics aggressors and defenders.
One thing to keep in mind, for a case of being on the ground, and having to fire upward, is that a large belly may well be in the bullet path leading directly to the organs in the upper torso.
I bought some of those Lehigh .32 ACP loads, but have yet to try them in live fire. I would like to read of what others may have experienced, before trying them in a Seecamp LWS-32. I had been casually trying to find a nice Beretta, or similar, .32 pistol, which suddenly became not so easy, when the panic-demic started.
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[QUOTE="brutus51,]Saw a really decent Colt 1903 the other day, store wanted $850. snip I sure would love to have it, just to appease the Bogey in me.[/QUOTE]
$850 for a good example may be high but if you're going to overspend on a pistol a nice 1903 is a good choice, especially in todays market. You can't go wrong with JMB or Bogie
[/QUOTE]$850 for a good example may be high but if you're going to overspend on a pistol a nice 1903 is a good choice, especially in todays market. You can't go wrong with JMB or Bogie
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GeoDudeFlorida
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I always enjoy it when this topic resurfaces. It allows me to quote Ian Fleming, "Walther PPK. 7.65mm, with a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window. Takes a Braush silencer with very little reduction in muzzle velocity. The American CIA swears by them."
– Maj. Boothroyd, to 007, in "Dr. No"
"Maj. Boothroyd" - and by proxy, Ian Fleming's - opinions aside, the .32ACP at "sharp-stick" range is more effective than a .25ACP... or a sharp stick, for that matter. Abd it is true that use of a silencer on a pocket pistol in .32ACP results in very little reduction in muzzle velocity - mainly because it starts with very little muzzle velocity. Anything from very little will, by definition, be less than very little. A person with knowledge of anatomy, their personal firearm, with good reflexes and possessing a calm demeanor can use such a small pocket pistol to excellent effect. At least, that's what the FBI gel stats say. The 7.65mm Browning, a.k.a. .32ACP has some obvious benefits: it is found typically in small, easily concealed pistols, it has half the recoil of a "short" 9mm (.380ACP) in guns of similar sizes, many hold more rounds than the comparable .380ACP models, and there is a decent selection of ammunition to choose from. There are also downsides - including production costs, reliability, the engineering constraints on springs and triggers in small automatics, and the cost of ammunition. The component costs for both guns and ammo are relatively the same for .32ACP as for .380ACP - so why make a smaller, weaker, less-effective pistol? In my view, because .25ACP is underpowered for its potential and .380ACP has too much recoil when cut down to concealment size. .32ACP - or, maybe more accurate to say the CIP standard European police cartridge, 7.65mm - fits the niche between concealment and controllability pretty darned well.
JMDAO, YMMV, No deposit - No return, see your doctor for details. Some will disagree. They always do.
– Maj. Boothroyd, to 007, in "Dr. No"
"Maj. Boothroyd" - and by proxy, Ian Fleming's - opinions aside, the .32ACP at "sharp-stick" range is more effective than a .25ACP... or a sharp stick, for that matter. Abd it is true that use of a silencer on a pocket pistol in .32ACP results in very little reduction in muzzle velocity - mainly because it starts with very little muzzle velocity. Anything from very little will, by definition, be less than very little. A person with knowledge of anatomy, their personal firearm, with good reflexes and possessing a calm demeanor can use such a small pocket pistol to excellent effect. At least, that's what the FBI gel stats say. The 7.65mm Browning, a.k.a. .32ACP has some obvious benefits: it is found typically in small, easily concealed pistols, it has half the recoil of a "short" 9mm (.380ACP) in guns of similar sizes, many hold more rounds than the comparable .380ACP models, and there is a decent selection of ammunition to choose from. There are also downsides - including production costs, reliability, the engineering constraints on springs and triggers in small automatics, and the cost of ammunition. The component costs for both guns and ammo are relatively the same for .32ACP as for .380ACP - so why make a smaller, weaker, less-effective pistol? In my view, because .25ACP is underpowered for its potential and .380ACP has too much recoil when cut down to concealment size. .32ACP - or, maybe more accurate to say the CIP standard European police cartridge, 7.65mm - fits the niche between concealment and controllability pretty darned well.
JMDAO, YMMV, No deposit - No return, see your doctor for details. Some will disagree. They always do.
pairof44sp
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Maybe it’s been mentioned already, but the best 32acp of all time, and my current grail gun, is the...
not gonna tell you, I want it for myself.
Just kidding, it’s the CZ 82 or 83, and it has a 15-round mag. That’s all I know about it, other than that they are hard to find
pairof44sp
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I don’t see this point made often enough: if you need to use a gun in self defense, you are likely already in the middle of a fight.If you can keep an accumulation of lint etc out of them, why not carry a .32 in a pocket, if you can quickly pull them out while lying prone with very tight pockets etc?
.32, .45 in a holster, whatever.......
To prepare a bit for the extremely common tactic--from a blind spot (thugs are street smart: why would they go by
of being punched, hit with a stick, or otherwise assaulted With No Time To Reach For Any Gun, >> while blocking and using both
I began actual classes in Krav Maga self-defense over a year ago, when I was 64 years old. Will save that for another discussion (pm me for any questions about Krav or Sauer 38H)
What gun do you want when you are rolling around on the ground?
Ignition Override
Member
pairof44sp: Exactly.
And a Krav Maga school usually allows at least one or several free visits to try out the easier basics (You decide whether you want to continue). Thugs
will often grab, shove, hit etc --- and from a bind spot.
Boom! And they will first warn us to get ready.? Victim: "Attacker, you must go stand 10-15' feet away so that I can use one or both hands to draw my Glock---don't streak like a stealthy cat...-that's how we do it at the range".
Wife/Daughter: If the thug suddenly grabs your wife's arm- or both
?....she also won't be able to simply pull out a handgun or mace.
Do you want Her, or your Daughter , to even Have a back-up plan ("Please don't hurt me!" will work?) ? . Guy jumps from a parked car, right by her on an isolated street....
And a Krav Maga school usually allows at least one or several free visits to try out the easier basics (You decide whether you want to continue). Thugs
will often grab, shove, hit etc --- and from a bind spot.Boom! And they will first warn us to get ready.? Victim: "Attacker, you must go stand 10-15' feet away so that I can use one or both hands to draw my Glock---don't streak like a stealthy cat...-that's how we do it at the range".
Wife/Daughter: If the thug suddenly grabs your wife's arm- or both?....she also won't be able to simply pull out a handgun or mace.Do you want Her, or your Daughter , to even Have a back-up plan
("Please don't hurt me!" will work?) ? . Guy jumps from a parked car, right by her on an isolated street....
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benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Have you tried Winchester Silvertip? The Beretta has no extractor, so completing extraction depends either on the case’s rearward momentum, or possibly residual gas pressure acting on the case. By contrast, a gun with an extractor can use the slide’s momentum to help complete the extraction. So a load lighter than what the Tomcat was designed for may not eject fully. I have in my brain somewhere that the 60gr Silvertip was the load the gun is tuned for. If you’re shooting FMJ, heavier/hotter loads might work better than milder loads.
You could also try some light gun grease (like Tetra grease) on the slide-to-frame contact surfaces. The less recoil energy is lost to friction, the more is left to eject the round.
Monac
Member
Boothroyd was a real person with real opinions about guns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Boothroyd
I used to have a big book he wrote on automatic pistols. Sometimes I wish I still did, but in 2012 I decided I would like to have more living space but not move somewhere else, so I got rid of a lot of things. It was a good book, but a general descriptive work, not useful for field stripping or identifying variations. I think it was published in the 1960's.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Boothroyd also told Fleming which holster to equip Bond with. The Boothroyd quote was in the book. In the movie it was The Armorer from Q-Section. To the best of my knowledge, Boothroyd never confirmed the quote in the book. He did consult on the books though. I could be wrong.
pairof44sp
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I wonder if Boothroyd’s spirit lives on in the Greener .32.
They say that when the Americans needed to kill a horse, they came up with the Colt Walker or Dragoon or one of those big old things.
When the Brits wanted a horsekiller, they chose the only cartridge that can kill a horse that’s hiding behind a plate glass window.
Greener Horsekiller pistols are still made today, and they only come in .32 ACP
sigma 40ve
Member
Another vote for KelTec P32 here. Carried one for years.
pairof44sp
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The secret to running .32 ACP is a Braush silencer.
You know, a Braush.
You know, a Braush.
toivo
Member
I have one, and yeah, it's great, but you're not going to drop it in your pocket on your way out the door. Not at 32 oz. loaded weight and dimensions of 5x7 inches.
Pictured below are .380s, but the dimensions are pretty much the same. That''s the Kel-Tec up top and the CZ left center.
(pic from http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2623)
Thanks, I'll try as soon as I can buy some bullets. I've got hundreds of primers and lots of powder and bullets for everything but this .32!
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