Beginner-9mm cartridges sticking in the barrel

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JRSR said:
Great suggestions! Thank you very much to everyone. I'll start over and adjust seating and crimp die to the smaller OAL suggestions.
Click to expand...
Watch that you don't swage much of the bullet when you crimp. You don't want to lose neck tension.
 
I have a CZ Shadow 2 and I have to load Montana Gold HPs to 1.09 and RMR 115 and 124gr FMJ to 1.125. Every bullet is going to be different and CZs like them short.
 
My two bits, all the numbers being suggested other than the maximum overall length are largely meaningless. For your gun and your load, you determine that number based on your chamber and your magazine. Others did the same for their gun.

Once you determine that number for the load and gun, you log it for future reference.

In the days before the Internet this is precisely what one did. You picked a recipe from a loading manual and then through trial and error you determined what actually works for you rather than garnering "suggestions".

Then you might make up a dummy load as well.

Good luck!
 
noylj said:
My two cz-75s have throats just like my p08s, p38s, bhps, and S&W. Never noticed any difference.
Plunk Testing:
The solution to chambering problems is to determine the cause:
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one
that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and
case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in
barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long
2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient
crimp
3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much
crimp, you're crushing the case
4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated
crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare)
or improper seating stem fit
5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case
Click to expand...

This is great!! Thanks!
 
When you get the COL figured out and start loading some rounds I wouldn’t load very many before you test them out.
Your powder charge seems pretty light at 3.5gr. Work up the load however you feel comfortable but Hodgdon lists starting load for W231 at 4.3gr with a LRN 9mm 115gr bullet. And a COL of 1.100”

Hodgdon has load data online if you have never checked it out.

Good luck
 
I think noylj is closest to the mark. You must be letting the slide feed the bullet for it to jam like that. Break down the gun and just use the barrel for a plunk.

I assuming you're using a RN lead bullet, but just in case would you send us a picture of the bullet, please?
 
Please - the bullets are fine, it is the length (OAL.) Your barrel will dictate your length.

Also as has been said the charge is a little light. BUT you must work up your loads to your gun
 
JRSR said:
Here is a link to the bullets I purchased
https://dgbullets.com/product/9mm-115/
Click to expand...

so a fairly standard RN 115 grain. The .356 dia as opposed to .355 diameter might cause you to seat deeper just a tiny bit, but really pretty standard.

I'm sure you've figured out that feeding by slide, either by slide release or manual release, is what causes you to have to remove rounds using pliers. So, use just the barrel and don't force anything.

So, according to my books, a 115 grain RN COL should be:
Hornady RNFMJ - 1.100
Nosler - 1.100
Sierra - 1.100
Speer TMJ RN 1.135

Now, all this depends on your barrel. Load at one of these depths and "plunk" it. Walkalong gave you the definitive line for plunk testing. Please use that. Adjust as needed. Use your magazine as a reference for COL. They gotta go in there.

If you think you're having problems with brass sizing, expanding and taper crimping, let us know. And, send pics of the issues.

Have fun.
 
CZ's have a short throat, OAL is an issue with a CZ. Also, the bullet profile can make a difference, that's why the plunk test is mandatory on a CZ. I once loaded VCrowns, and had to seat them so short, that they wouldn't feed out of the mag .
 
Average Joe said:
CZ's have a short throat, OAL is an issue with a CZ. Also, the bullet profile can make a difference, that's why the plunk test is mandatory on a CZ. I once loaded VCrowns, and had to seat them so short, that they wouldn't feed out of the mag .
Click to expand...

I'm curious about what you base short throat on. CZ is a full voting member of CIP and would be cutting chambers to the same dimensions from which we took ours SAAMI dimensions. And, after slogging through most of the metric conversion, I can find no difference.
 
Read the reviews in the website. A review stated loading for cz75 oal of 1.080.

I agree 3.5 is way low. Kick that up to 4.3.

Looks like good pricing, I might try me some.
 
NMexJim said:
I'm curious about what you base short throat on. CZ is a full voting member of CIP and would be cutting chambers to the same dimensions from which we took ours SAAMI dimensions. And, after slogging through most of the metric conversion, I can find no difference.
Click to expand...

CZs have notoriously short throats. See the figure in post #21.

Chamber throat dimension vary from one brand to another. The CIP and SAAMI guides are of little use in this regard.
 
ericuda said:
Read the reviews in the website. A review stated loading for cz75 oal of 1.080.

I agree 3.5 is way low. Kick that up to 4.3.

Looks like good pricing, I might try me some.
Click to expand...

Understand that this is solely curiosity and not meant as an argument.

The problem when comparing CIP to SAAMI is that CIP doesn't give dimension F, and also that the angle to the throat is a bit different at 1 degree 57 minutes 57 seconds as opposed to SAAMI's flat 2 degrees. We're talking about less than 1/64 (.0156) difference between the two standards anyway not taking cutting tolerances into account. I think we'll find them to be the same, but, no matter, I have a query into CZ. I'll follow-up with their reply.
 
NMexJim said:
I'm curious about what you base short throat on. CZ is a full voting member of CIP and would be cutting chambers to the same dimensions from which we took ours SAAMI dimensions. And, after slogging through most of the metric conversion, I can find no difference.
Click to expand...

Well, considering I can load Montana Gold 115 and 124 hollow points to 1.25 OAL for my Sig, Walther and Glock and they plunk just fine, but my CZ requires them to be seated to 1.09 shows that the throat is much shorter on a CZ than most other big names.
 
When you resized your brass did you make sure your sizing die is screwed all the way down. If you are not getting brass sized all the way that might be a problem.
Quick check is to size one and dump it in your chamber and see if it goes thunk
 
NMexJim said:
Understand that this is solely curiosity and not meant as an argument.

The problem when comparing CIP to SAAMI is that CIP doesn't give dimension F, and also that the angle to the throat is a bit different at 1 degree 57 minutes 57 seconds as opposed to SAAMI's flat 2 degrees. We're talking about less than 1/64 (.0156) difference between the two standards anyway not taking cutting tolerances into account. I think we'll find them to be the same, but, no matter, I have a query into CZ. I'll follow-up with their reply.
Click to expand...

There can be a big difference between any two barrels on what OAL will fit. Below are examples from my different barrels with a Hornady 115 HAP/XTP. They are all made in USA, so should be following SAAMI specs.

S&W M&P9 4.25" barrel = 1.093" max
S&W M&P9 4.0" barrel = 1.098" max
Kart 5.0" barrel (cut with a Manson 9mm Luger reamer) = 1.158" max
Apex 4.25" for M&P9 = 1.073"
Storm Lake 5.0" = 1.133"
Storm Lake 4.25" = 1.135"

That's why specs don't mean much. Companies do whatever they want.
 
NMexJim said:
I'm curious about what you base short throat on. CZ is a full voting member of CIP and would be cutting chambers to the same dimensions from which we took ours SAAMI dimensions. And, after slogging through most of the metric conversion, I can find no difference.
Click to expand...

The only firearm I own that comes close to a short a lead as my Shadow 2 is my springfield xds. Those two are shortest with my sp01 slightly longer.

115 grain bullets are much less noticeable depending on bullet profile. The short fat rmr 124s i shoot are very different and run much shorter oal. Find your tightest or shortest lead and load for that gun so your reloads work in all your guns. My oal is not your oal so I won't bother posting it
 
Erief0g said:
The only firearm I own that comes close to a short a lead as my Shadow 2 is my springfield xds. Those two are shortest with my sp01 slightly longer.

115 grain bullets are much less noticeable depending on bullet profile. The short fat rmr 124s i shoot are very different and run much shorter oal. Find your tightest or shortest lead and load for that gun so your reloads work in all your guns. My oal is not your oal so I won't bother posting it
Click to expand...

That's interesting! I have an XD9, an XDM9 and an EMP and haven't noticed a short leade on any. I load the same length for all three plus for a Kahr PM9, a Browning (that's a Portugal made and has a long throat), a SIG P320, a SIG 938, and a Walther 9. I did see several mentions of an SP01 being short. I guess I've just not seen a short throat personally. BTW, I don't use 115s - only 124.

Granted I use an LE Wilson Pistol Max gauge to check the length and to aid in setting seaters, so, I might not notice .010 or .015.

As I said above, I reached out to CZ USA for a comment.
 
Consider bullet profile as well. If I load some precision delta 124 grains I can go much longer as they are a taller bullet that is narrow and pointy compared to the rmr which is shorter and fatter. Depending on bullet the shorter lead may not be realized

Edit. In checking notes a comparison
These are my firearms and your own test needs to determine your oal. Never assume there isn't a typo from internet postings and double check all measurements.
Rmr 124 mpr jhp in shadow 2 i load to 1.060
Rmr 124 mw truncated I load to 1.075
Precision delta 124 jhp in Shadow 2 I load to 1.088

The springfield i have noted on the rmr mpr jhp as 1.070
Rmr on left precision delta on right. The ogive or profile changes the oal.
20210302_050429.jpg
 
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Over crimping and wedging into rather than mouth resting on bore. "Headspace wedging"??
 
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