Those Unpublished Middle Loads 44 Special - Magnum

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Hartkopf

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Per forum rules; a disclaimer should be given for any powders or loads that are dangerous when loaded below the published minimums.

The reason for this thread is to help identify what is dangerous below minimums.





I’ve read some of the threads about running 44 Special loads in 44 Magnum cases. I’m curious about the in between loads where the Specials leave off but there is no data published below where Magnums start.

I know powders like H110 should not be downloaded. I know Titegroup has an extremely wide range from starting Special all the way to Magnum (Hodgdon site). I’m not using either of these powders. I’m considering Longshot and HS-6.


The goal is a softer shooting Marlin for my wife, but with more range and flatter shooting than a 1000fps 44 Special. I understand that 44 Specials can kill deer. That’s not the point of this post.


So is anybody loading those unpublished middle loads and are any specific powders safe below minimums?
 
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One example of a middle load that I would guess is safe is IMR-4227 with 200gr Noslers.
Nosler has data for 44 Special ranging from 15.4 to 16.4grs. And data for 44 Magnum ranging from 26 to 27 grains. So in a magnum case, 22grs (for example) would seem safe. Nosler has proven that very low pressure is ok in the 44 Special with IMR-4227.
 
One problem I’m having, as are most other reloaders, is that I only have a few powders to choose from. Some of the data from the magazines posted do not list powders or bullets I have.
(I appreciate the info though!:thumbup:)

I have Longshot, HS-6 and IMR-4227.
 
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I've dabbled with imr4227, I'm by no means experienced with it. I got some unburned powder and inconsistent velocity on the lower end . good result and much less unburned powder up near the top. I have a heavier bullet I'm going to try that may give me the results I'm looking for (a load between 45 colt and 454 casull- similar to what you're doing).

2400 is great, tougher than anything to put hands on right now- been trying for months. I have a lot more experience with 2400 and it will do what you want and seems to be a very predictable propellant . I don't use 2400 for full throttle but in the midrange magnum loads it does the best for me.

I know that's not an answer to your question but it's the best I've got. Zero experience with longshot or HS-6.
 
I've found 10gn Unique under a 240gn bullets to be accurate at 50 yds with irons, and at that distance shoots close to the same poa as my 240xtp/W296 load. I haven't had a chance to Chrono it yet or shoot it beyond 50yds, but I plan to in the next few months. I'm guessing it's in the 1250-1450 range, but I'm honestly not sure.
Recoil is definitely nicer than the full magnum load though.
I don't have any experience with HS-6 or Longshot.
ETA: I was shooting these loads in a 20" Marlin 1894
 
One problem I’m having, as are most other reloaders, is that I only have a few powders to choose from. Some of the data from the magazines posted do not list powders or bullets I have.
(I appreciate the info though!:thumbup:)

I have Longshot, HS-6 and IMR-4227.

Did you go to the loaddata.com site? I counted over 50 .44 Special loads using HS-6 and nearly that many with IMR-4227.

35W
 
Just for perspective I load 205gr LTC and 210gr RNFP coated in 44 spl brass shot in a 3" S&W 696 at 950-1000 fps with WSF and VV-n340.
 
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I use Unique with 240 grain bullets and load them a bit hotter than 44 Special levels in 44 Magnum cases for most of my 44 Magnum shooting. For the most part, I do not need to shoot top level, wrist snapping recoil rounds in my magnum guns these days. I'm happy just enjoying them with comfortable loads.

I've found a nice load with 700-X and 240 grain bullets in 44 Special cases for my 44 Special guns.

I prefer to shoot the appropriate cases in the guns for what they were chambered for, 44 Special cases in 44 Special guns, 44 Magnum cases in 44 Magnum guns.

Not a necessity, just one of my idiosyncrasies.

It is helpful that I have guns chambered in both cartridges. Same for 38 Special.357 Magnum guns.

I've even found a 45 Colt level load for 460 S&W Magnum cases for my 460XVR revolver.
 
Not sure what bullet you want to use, but Hodgdon shows several 44 Mag loads using HS-6.
 
Did you go to the loaddata.com site? I counted over 50 .44 Special loads using HS-6 and nearly that many with IMR-4227.

35W

Sorry it was getting late. I did go to the site I just didn't look up data and I assumed (jumped to conclusion:oops:) it was similar or the same as the magazine articles Barbaroja posted. I'll give it a look now. Thanks!:)
 
One example of a middle load that I would guess is safe is IMR-4227 with 200gr Noslers.
Nosler has data for 44 Special ranging from 15.4 to 16.4grs. And data for 44 Magnum ranging from 26 to 27 grains. So in a magnum case, 22grs (for example) would seem safe. Nosler has proven that very low pressure is ok in the 44 Special with IMR-4227.

I use a LOT of IMR4227 in the .41MAG with my Marlin... a few things...

Reduced loads with slower burning powders will produce what you are looking for, but in my experience they are not the cleanest burning loads out there. When I picked up IMR4227, it was during the first Dark Age, and it was on the shelf. Starting .41 loads produced a dirty load, and poor accuracy... it was awful. So I decided to just get rid of it by loading it up in 800 .41MAG cartridges I was loading for a long-range shoot. I went to the next level of charge weight... and, boy howdy, it cleaned right up and performed very well. For midrange loads, I use a more medium-rate powder like Unique... although you did not mention that as one of your powders, and I'm not familiar with the other 2 to recommend anything.

I would rather see you load something like IMR4227 in a .44SPC case, vs a reduced load in the .44MAG case... although I understand you might have feeding problems in your Marlin. I think you would see a better overall load.
 
This is all very good information, I have been frustrated with the accuracy out of my Redhawk. With some testing I would hope it shoots better than 3-4" groups at 25yrd off a rest. Those groups were with factory and hand loads.
 
Unique will get you what you want from mild to “almost” wild in a .44magnum case. you can start with standard .44special loads in magnum cases and work up to some fairly stout magnum level loads but they will never reach 2400 or H110 power or velocity. Recoil is nice at the lower levels and not bad as you get into magnum territory. Accuracy seems good to me, but everybody has their own standard there. Unique has a really wide range of application in .44mag cases.
 
True Blue makes nice midrange loads in .41 Mag, I haven’t done any downloading in .44 Mag, so I can’t say for sure there. If I was doing it fresh today, True Blue and BE-86 would be at the top of my list to try for midrange loads in .44 Mag
 
Longshot works very well with the lighter weight bullets. HS6 is slower and more versatile, although magnum primers might be required.
These loads are all well below max 44 mag published loads, in 44 magnum brass.

Hornady 180 XTP CCI-300 14.0 gr Longshot 1400 fps
Gardner's Cache 265 SWC GC WLP 12.0 gr HS6 1100 fps
 
https://www.handloadermagazine.com/44-s-w-special-p

Brian Pierce to the rescue again with another 44 special article! This one has data with longshot.

ive tried longshot at 8.0 8.5 and 9.0 grains under a cast 200gn RNFP and found it very accurate and would happily load it again if that’s all I had.

I've used a lot of the data from that handloader #312 article with impressive results. I'd be taking a hard look at those longshot loads.
 
I've dabbled with imr4227, I'm by no means experienced with it. I got some unburned powder and inconsistent velocity on the lower end . good result and much less unburned powder up near the top. I have a heavier bullet I'm going to try that may give me the results I'm looking for (a load between 45 colt and 454 casull- similar to what you're doing).

2400 is great, tougher than anything to put hands on right now- been trying for months. I have a lot more experience with 2400 and it will do what you want and seems to be a very predictable propellant . I don't use 2400 for full throttle but in the midrange magnum loads it does the best for me.

I know that's not an answer to your question but it's the best I've got. Zero experience with longshot or HS-6.
Have you tried magnum primers..
 
Per forum rules; a disclaimer should be given for any powders or loads that are dangerous when loaded below the published minimums.

The reason for this thread is to help identify what is dangerous below minimums.





I’ve read some of the threads about running 44 Special loads in 44 Magnum cases. I’m curious about the in between loads where the Specials leave off but there is no data published below where Magnums start.

I know powders like H110 should not be downloaded. I know Titegroup has an extremely wide range from starting Special all the way to Magnum (Hodgdon site). I’m not using either of these powders. I’m considering Longshot and HS-6.


The goal is a softer shooting Marlin for my wife, but with more range and flatter shooting than a 1000fps 44 Special. I understand that 44 Specials can kill deer. That’s not the point of this post.


So is anybody loading those unpublished middle loads and are any specific powders safe below minimums?
For in-between loads in .44Spl my go-to powder is Blue Dot. But it requires more case-fill than is practical for an in-between .44Mag. For lower-level .44Magnums, the Speer 12th lists a 240gr. LSWC load with a range of 8.5-9.5gr. for HS-6 with a velocity range of 822-947fps. Essentially, Dirty Harry's, "...light special load." That's out of a 7-1/2" Redhawk, according to the listing. I'm not sure how your wife's Marlin will like feeding a LSWC profile or if you are looking for jacketed-only data but, in that weight class, with a lead bullet, HS-6 does seem to give good results at lower velocities. The same edition of Speer's lists a 240gr. jacketed with HS-6 with a range of 12.3-13.7gr. for 1172-1271fps. Just shy of 1100fps would probably be better with a heavier-weight bullet like the 240gr. in jacketed and I don't think going down-ladder up to a full grain will cause problems but go slow and watch for signs of detonation vs. deflagration. You want powder to burn, not explode. I would suggest starting at 12.3gr. with a jacketed 240gr. and see how it is to shoot. If it's still a bit rough, go to a 240gr. swaged lead RN bullet at 8.5gr. and see how it shoots. If it's still to rough, you might have to try something like Unique or W231 with a lighter bullet, IF you can find those powders.
 
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