Rogers & Spencer 44 cal revolver

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electricfactory

electricfactory

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I recently came into a Euroarms Rogers & Spencer revolver made in 1979 which has a couple of interesting attributes. It appears the previous owner removed the finish to bare metal in the interests of aging the gun. The TN gentleman I bought it from told me he acquired a large collection from a recently deceased Civil War 'skirmisher' which I took to mean re-enactor. It also appears he replaced the original barrel with either a custom barrel or a special order from Euroarms. He dovetailed a larger front sight blade and the barrel features load info for the gun under the loading lever !

Mechanically it appears to be tight and indexing perfectly. The bore is as new indicating it may not have been shot much if at all.

I was surprised to find that cocking the gun feels nothing like cocking a Colt open top. Those of you who have one of these know what I mean, it's just.. different.

I've yet to shoot the gun but I intend to start with the load info under the barrel. I understand the Rogers & Spencer is an accuarate shooter, am looking forward to some range time and will post results. I would very much like to hear from other Rogers & Spencer owners to learn of any quirks, tips or info.

Here are a few pics;

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dennis g said:
That gun was done by Tom Ball. He was a skirmisher, a member of the N-SSA.
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I found this at another forum where I started a similar thread, thought the info interesting;

"That gun was given the full treatment by the late Tom Ball who was a legendary pistolsmith and I don't know of anyone today who is his equal. Tom specialized in cap & ball revolvers and if you shot in the N-SSA you aspired to have one of his guns. The cylinder and barrel are sized to take a .457" round ball and no smaller. The twist is 1 in 16" and was one of Tom's barrels and if I remember he got the blanks from Bobby Hoyt custom made to his specs. Everything in that revolver has been reworked to Tom's satisfaction. 84 was probably the year he did the work and I have no idea what the longer # is other than possibly for his records. His underbarrel stamping varied over the years however if the gun doesn't have that (or similar) stamping it is not one of his completely reworked guns. I see revolvers offered for sale occasionally that are claimed to have been given one of his accuracy jobs but without those markings they are BS. Tom would rework your gun or sell you one that he had in stock. Most of his guns he bought and reworked for resale were Piettas. When I asked him why (Piettas were not a quality gun back then) he said something to the effect of "Why pay more if I'm going to replace or rework everything anyway". Tom also took new revolvers, tuned them and cut an11 deg. forcing cone and sold them as a budget gun. These were not marked like the accurized ones and as far as I am concerned don't command a premium over any other tuned revolver. BTW when you got your gun back from him you got a test target, one round from each chamber, 20 grains GOEX 3f and cream of wheat fired in a Ransom rest at 25 yards.

My match revolver was a Euroarms R&S that I had Tom rework after I saved up enough and it wasn't cheap back then (he finished it on 3-91). With it in hand I moved up to being a serious competitor at the nationals finishing in the top 3 a number of times. Jack Rawls, co-founder of the NSSA. had handed me the gun to shoot and after about a year I gave him $60 for it, shot it for a season and then turned it over to Tom for his magic. I acquired one of his Remingtons from a now deceased team member a couple of years ago and the test target that came with it has all six in one hole that measures 13/16" outside diameter, 25 yards. I offered it to my wife to replace her reworked Uberti but she hasn't made a decision yet. It's doubtful I would ever sell it.

I have no idea what your gun is actually worth, more if it had the original finish I'm sure. BTW reenactors and skirmishers are two different animals though we have members that do both. Skirmishers have lead balls, reenactors have none. "
 
I had one that may have been re-barreled, the barrel was an octagon and had fine ribs running around it. Started with lite loads and couldn't hit a barn from inside.. Approaching a full load it tightened up and shot where it was looking. On the whole I liked it except for one thing. There was a tendency for a light pinch to the trigger finger between the trigger and frame.
 
First off, a Skirmisher is somebody who is a competitive shooter in the North South Skirmish Association, of which I am a member. We shoot Civil War arms in competition including artillery. We are NOT reenactors.

What you have is a competition grade R&S done by the late Tom Ball who is widely acknowledged to be the best in making these guns shoot. Tom set that gun up for a 457 ball and it has a 1/16 twist and just guessing but it could also be a gain twist. Don't trash his work with Pyrodex. That gun will probably shoot better than you could ever hold it. I've seen Ball revolvers that could put the entire cylinder into 1in at 25yds. Yeah, they're that good.
 
I have two, one with an additional conversion cylinder. I’d suggest you familiarize your self with the base pin retention cross bolt. If the screw head on the left side isn’t position correctly the base pin will back out when a ball or bullet is seated. Under some conditions it’s possible to bend the base pin.
 
whughett said:
I’d suggest you familiarize yourself with the base pin retention cross bolt. If the screw head on the left side isn’t positioned correctly, the base pin will back out when a ball or bullet is seated. Under some conditions, it’s possible to bend the base pin.
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Good to know, thanks for the tip for my Euroarms Rogers & Spencer .44 revolver!
 
Funny thing is...few, if any, Rogers and Spencers ever saw action in the ACW...and if they did, they were likely prototypes and private purchase. The lion's share of these ended up sitting in Bannerman's warehouse until after the turn of the century and were sold as curios or decorations for the most part. I have been able to find no definitive records that show any R&S actually saw combat in the ACW. Just sayin'.

http://www.armscollectors.com/mgs/army_revolvers_part_2.htm
 
True, but I wonder how many made it into civilian hands post-War and found their way onto the American Western frontier.

Captain*kirk said:
Funny thing is...few, if any, Rogers and Spencers ever saw action in the ACW...and if they did, they were likely prototypes and private purchase. The lion's share of these ended up sitting in Bannerman's warehouse until after the turn of the century and were sold as curios or decorations for the most part. I have been able to find no definitive records that show any R&S actually saw combat in the ACW. Just sayin'.

http://www.armscollectors.com/mgs/army_revolvers_part_2.htm
Click to expand...
 
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Its pretty easy to keep a muzzle loading rifle and BP handgun running with loose powder, balls and caps. Cartridges were expensive and not always available. Plenty of Civil war nuskets were bored out to smooth bores and sold to poor people headed west in wagon trains. Those and maybe some of the left over CW revolvers may have been all they could afford or hope to keep firing.
 
This makes sense to me and follows human nature exactly. My Dad was a carpenter, he didn't have the latest tools, he had the tools he could afford. This would I think be especially true during the 18th and 19th centuries. In 1873 the Colt SAA sold for $17.50, but your old Colts M1851 Navy .36 is still dispensing lead pills just fine. $17.50 is a lot of money.

ThomasT said:
Its pretty easy to keep a muzzle loading rifle and BP handgun running with loose powder, balls and caps. Cartridges were expensive and not always available. Plenty of Civil war nuskets were bored out to smooth bores and sold to poor people headed west in wagon trains. Those and maybe some of the left over CW revolvers may have been all they could afford or hope to keep firing.
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electricfactory said:
This makes sense to me and follows human nature exactly. My Dad was a carpenter, he didn't have the latest tools, he had the tools he could afford. This would I think be especially true during the 18th and 19th centuries. In 1873 the Colt SAA sold for $17.50, but your old Colts M1851 Navy .36 is still dispensing lead pills just fine. $17.50 is a lot of money.
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That was a point that Sam Fadala made in one of his black powder books is that people just didn't dump the guns that had served them for years or decades just because something new came along. Even James Butler Hickok held on to his Navy Colts long after newer guns came out like the conversion models and the 1873 Colt and the great S&W Top Breaks.

I'm still driving my old 2004 GMC Sierra with over 200,000 miles on it and it still runs and rides fine. And I will drive it till the wheels fall off and then get a newer truck. Like a 2010 model.:D
 
Ephraim Kibbey said:
Besides the blued finish versions, the Euroarm's Rogers & Spencer also came in what was termed their "London Grey" finish which always seems to command a higher price at auctions. It was not stainless as far as I know but had that appearance. Yours may well be of that finish type and not had anything removed. Review of euroarms .44 rogers and spencer cap and ball revolver - Bing video
EUROARMS ROGER & SPENCER LONDON GREY 7.5 BARREL BLACK POWDER REVOLVER . 44 CAL USED (henrykrank.com)
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Mine:

Rogers_Spencer_L.jpg

It's a heck of a nice wheelgun. The only downside IMO is the inability to rest the hammer safely between chambers.
 
It's like the Zouave Rifles that Val Forgett had made. They are period correct, but no evidence that they were ever issued. Which is why so many were found in good condition. Or the stories from the Little Big Horn of Indians "pumping their Winchesters."
 
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