Uberti new model frontier: top latch problems

Welcome aboard. Sorry I can't answer your question but here at THR it is customary to provide pics of your revolver for our viewing enjoyment. LOL.
Seriously though someone should be stopping by soon that might be able to help.

Fast forward to 19:53 see if this helps any

10:49 here

Which of these "spring"/parts (by #) are you having a problem with ?
http://www.ubertireplicas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/8650-Revolver-SA-New-Model-Frontier.png

Howdy

The Uberti Frontier is a replica of the Smith and Wesson New Model Number Three.

And I was about to ask why in the dickens did you take the barrel latch apart.

The Uberti version of this revolver is not quite true to the original. (And by the way, even though the Schofield model is more famous, there were far more New Model Number Threes produced than Schofields. There were over 47,000 New Model Number Threes made in 17 different chamberings. Only about 9,000 Schofields in just one chambering. Sorry, just had to say that.)

Here are a couple of antique S&W New Model Number Threes. Notice the lack of the knurled screw on top of the top strap. That was only a feature of the 3rd Model Russian. Uberti's version of the Russian is a replica of the 3rd Model, the 1st and 2nd models lacked that knurled screw on top. What I think Uberti did was use the same barrel assembly from their Russian model and put it on their replica of the New Model Number Three, along with the knurled screw on top of the top strap.






Here is how you pop the cylinder out of a New Model Number Three. You push the latch up with your thumb, and rotate the cylinder counterclockwise while pulling up on it. When the latch is lifted, the hook on the bottom of the latch clears the cylinder and allows it to be removed. There is a reverse thread on the arbor and pulling up on the cylinder while rotating it counterclockwise will engage the thread and the cylinder will rise up as you turn it. At some point the thread will disengage and you can lift the cylinder straight off.






I looked up taking the latch apart in an original New Model Number Three in David Chicoine's book Antique Firearms Assembly and Disassembly. I have never bothered to take the latch apart on one of my NM#3s, there is no need. Interestingly enough, Chicoine's illustration of the parts shows the same coil spring (#666) and triangular shaped piece (#667) as the Uberti assembly drawing shows. But the original NM#3 latch was simpler than 3rd Model Russian latch that Uberti uses. It has less parts and cost less to make.

Here is what Chicoine has to say about taking the latch apart in an original:

"Unscrew and remove the barrel catch screw from the left side of the barrel topstrap. The barrel catch can now be withdrawn to the rear. By holding the barrel in a muzzle up position and tapping the rear of the barrel topstrap on a wooden bench top, the barrel catch cam and barrel catch cam spring will fall out of their recess in the topstrap. Be sure to note the positions of these two parts for later reassembly."

The Italics are mine. Kind of closing the barn door after the horse has left. Not much help, but maybe it will help for next time.

Howdy Again

Hats Off to MEHavey.

He explained everything.

The New Model Number Three was the very best of the large frame Smith and Wesson Top Breaks. A lot of design work went into it. The hammer was rebounding, the grip was much better shaped than on any of the earlier Number Threes, and S&W had redesigned the barrel catch, making it simpler to manufacture and easier to operate.

Unfortunately, Uberti chose to go the less expensive route and use the same barrel assembly from their Russian 3rd Model with its more complicated and more difficult to use barrel latch.

Here is the top strap from a 2nd Model Russian. S&W changed the screw in the 3rd Model to a large, knurled thumb screw, at least no screw driver was needed to pull the cylinder off for cleaning.






Which is one of the reasons I don't like shooting the Russian model. Too much of a pain to remove the cylinder for cleaning. Yup, you have to undo the screw in the top strap to pull the Cylinder Catch out to remove the cylinder.






So much easier with the NM3 design. Nothing to disassemble. Just lift the barrel latch, and rotate the cylinder counter clockwise while pulling up slightly.






The other thing I don't like about shooting the Russian model is that big pointy hump on the grip. The Russians wanted that as a design feature because they did not want the grip rotating in the hand from recoil. It does a great job of keeping the grip from rotating. Unforunately, for most of us it is a farther reach with the thumb to cock the hammer than with a Colt. So I always have to regrip when cocking the hammer in order to reach the hammer spur. I place the pointy hump against the palm of my hand so I can reach the hammer. Then I have to remember to regrip again, to get my hand below the pointy hump. If I don't regrip, and fire the revolver, the pointy hump digs into my hand and it hurts. Even with a relatively mild cartridge like 44 Russian.






The grip shape of the New Model Number Three is so much more refined than the Russian model. Just a slight 'knuckle' on the grip, very much like the grip shape of a modern K frame Smith. If I want to allow the grip to rotate in my hand when shooting, this one is also chambered for 44 Russian, the most popular chambering of this model, I can. I let the grip rotate in my hand, which brings the hammer spur closer to my thumb, in order to cock it. Then I just regrip once, not twice, to get my hand back under the hump.






Uberti did a great job of making a New Model Number Three style frame, but they cheaped out on the barrel assembly, using the same barrel as their Russian Model. They could have made a new barrel assembly just like the originals, with the improved barrel latch.




Here is a treat. This is a New Model Number Three Target Model. This one does not belong to me, but I did have the opportunity to photograph it at a CAS match. These had a windage adjustable rear sight, similar to what Uberti is putting on their replica of the New Model Number Three, and a raised target front sight with a bead on top of the blade. These were chambered for the S&W 32-44 and 38-44 target cartridges. Not the same as the later S&W 38-44 high powered version of the 38 Special. This 38-44 was basically the same as a modern 38S&W cartridge, except the brass was extended all the way to the front of the chamber. The bullets were loaded set all the way back in the case like a wad cutter. The 32-44 target cartridge was similar. Because the brass extended all the way to the front of the cylinder, there was no reduced diameter chamber throat for the bullet to traverse. These were the premier target revolvers of their day, easily more accurate than any of their competitors. This one is chambered for the 38-44 round. I'm still kicking myself because a few years ago the owner called me up and asked if I wanted to buy it. Like a dope, I said no. I could have been shooting modern 38S&W ammo out of it if I had wanted to, because the 38-44 target round is no longer manufactured.






Here is a reprint from a 1900 S&W catalog showing some of the cartridges the New Model Number Three was chambered for.The 32-44 and 38-44 are the top two on the left. The 38 WInchester cartridge in the catalog is what we usually call 38-40 these days, and the 44 Winchester round is what is usually known as 44-40.






Interestingly enough, by this time S&W was calling what we now know as the New Model Number Three, the Russian Model.

Refresh my memory, but the Russian preceded the Schofield? Schofield wanted the revised latch, but have to wonder why the humpback was abandoned.
Neat guns; love shooting the Schofield replica.
Moon

Howdy Again

There were five distinct Smith and Wesson Top Break models built on the #3 sized frame. All were large, but they differed in significant details.

The five were, in order of appearance, the American Model, the Russian Model, the Schofield, the New Model Number Three, and the 44 Double Action.

The Schofield latch was patented by Schofield and S&W had to pay him a royalty for every revolver they made using his patent. Daniel Wesson instructed his engineers to find a way around Schofield's patent, still using its basic idea, but the model was only built for two years and no patentable work around had been developed in that time.

S&W made over 150,000 Russian models between 1873 and 1878, in three different configurations, mostly for sale overseas to Russia, Turkey, and Japan. There were only about 9,000 Schofields made in two slightly different models, from 1875 to 1877.

If you are asking about the 'humpback' on the grip of the Russian Model, I have already described how awkward it is to shoot. The Russians wanted it, but some Russian models in the US had the pointy hump ground off because it is so awkward to shoot. I really do not like shooting it, I suspect many 19th Century shooters in the Old West might have agreed with me. The Schofield had a curved grip that rolled nicely in the hand in recoil.

The revolver at the top of this photo is a Schofield 1st Model, the revolver at the bottom is a Russian 2nd Model. Notice the distinctive frame mounted barrel latch on the Schofield and the nicely curved grip.






I am probably going to put together a photo essay on the five different S&W Top Break #3 models, but I don't want to hijack this thread.

Thankee, Driftwood', appreciated, and sorry for the hijack.
Thnx,
Moon

You didn't hijack anything. I did.