Customer Supplied Barstock for Barrel

Why should they risk expensive equipment machining an unknown metal? I know you know what it is but why would you expect them to accept that without an expensive analysis. I side with the barrel makers.

My initial reaction was that anyone who would be willing to do that, wouldn't be somebody you'd want to make you a barrel.

Having control of the entire process is how barrel makers get the results that become their reputation; why risk that, along with a $2M Fadal, to make one barrel from an odd-ball steel?


Larry

Not all materials are ideal for barrels for various reasons, either way no barrel will last forever . some are good for longer but some are burned out in a thousand rounds . I would assume that the trade offs in a tougher material aren't enough to justify the end result, but I could be wrong. Is the main goal longevity? What chambering would you choose?

Mystery steel is always a risk, even if they know exactly what alloy it is, if they have never used it before it may cause problems or unexpected performance in their processes that has already been tuned for particular alloys.

A barrel does not work harden when it is fired. You never exceed the yield strength with normal firing so there can be no work hardening.

Gun barrel are typically only hardened to an hardness of between mid 30's to high 40's HRC. This is done for safety. A gun barrel in this hardness range is tough and if subjected to an over-pressure event they tent to fail gracefully with minimal or no small high-velocity fragments. A barrel hardened to HRC 60+ would have a moderately higher yield strength and wear somewhat better but in the case of an over pressure event, (or even a fatigue crack after a long life of shooting) would do a most excellent grenade impersonation generating lots of high velocity fragments when it failed.

If you want a really good barrel look up Bartlein Barrels (https://bartleinbarrels.com/)

Sorry OP. Your SOL. You can’t get a camshaft ground or a crankshaft made from your own steel either. Nobody with equipment meant to make money will touch any of that stuff. Not one offs anyway. If you’re part of another company who sends 100 blanks to barrel manufacturer, you might have a chance.

Vendetta said:

I contacted Bartlien earlier. They gave me legit answers why they won't do it, as have you guys, but I would like to exhaust all options, if there are any, before getting stuck with a $250 paper weight.
I'm going to assume all the biggest barrel makers are crossed out by default do to risk, reputation and high costs. Would I have a better chance of getting a local smith doing it, or is that even less likely?

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I believe you need to throw in the towel.

What chambering do you want? The only realistic option I can think of right now would be to drill it on a lathe, press in a rifled barrel blank, then contour and thread the barrel. There are ways to button rifle at home using a piece of tool-steel but I wouldn’t try it for a centerfire rifle.

Vendetta said:

I contacted Bartlien earlier. They gave me legit answers why they won't do it, as have you guys, but I would like to exhaust all options, if there are any, before getting stuck with a $250 paper weight.
I'm going to assume all the biggest barrel makers are crossed out by default do to risk, reputation and high costs. Would I have a better chance of getting a local smith doing it, or is that even less likely?

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I think its probably more likely to work out, tho a local smith with boring and rifling equipment is probably pretty rare. Id probably stick that sucker on ebay and hope for the best.

OP sounds like you have an expensive tomato stake ,or, door wall prop.

I work on semi’s and there is a reason we don’t use customer supplied parts. It’s because over half the time we get Screwed. Barrel maker will be the same way.

I suspect liability would be the main issue.

I would think that one of the reboring operations MAY be willing to take it on.

Or at least be most likely to take it on. They work on customer supplied barrels at least.

JES reboring is probably the guy to ask.
http://www.35caliber.com/index.html

You are already $250 in, time to buy a lathe and research various methods of rifling and equipment needed.

By the time you are fully invested both money and knowledge, you should be able to do it yourself as well as understand why a barrel making business isn’t as interested in your project as you are.

If you start your communications with the business with, “Money is no object and I understand one off’s are not the bread and butter of your business however; I assume enough zeros in the payment should persuade any business at some point.” You might get some takers.

Vendetta said:

Does any barrel maker out there work on anything not their own steel or am I SOL?

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I've never heard of this.... ever, in nearly half a century of gun-life and somewhat less of manufacturing.

I've never even heard of a *maker* taking one in as a core or exchange. Even for a handgun.

Doesn't mean one isn't out there but to directly answer the question in my experience; nope.

Todd.

What gave you any idea this was a thing? And why buy materials before figuring out the first question?

If it were me I'd sell the bar stock and move on. I can't think of anyone who would do this. Even then I'd very much prefer to buy a completed barrel from a manufacturer. They know what metals and processes to use far better than I ever will.

hmmm get into knife making?

Blackpowder barrel?
Shotgun barrel?
Possibly sell it.
I like the above. Make knife blades outta it.
I don't see any way anyone would take the risk of an unknown quantity.


It'd be like a random stranger walking up to your car at a red light and handing you a pre opened cheeseburger.

We don't make barrels out of tool steels for good reason, and no barrel maker, small or large, is going to touch that.

You might be able to find someone willing to bore it, then you can buy a button and push it through. But by the time you pay for all that, your $250 piece of bar is gonna be a very mediocre $2,500 barrel.

Get what you can out of the bar stock and buy a proper barrel

It's not a waste at all. A $250 chunk of steel, is still a $250 chunk of steel.

Get it hot and forge it into a sword, if you're looking for a project to stay entertained. Or make me some spear heads to throw at deer.

I have a friend that bought a Oldsmobile with a diesel engine about 40 years ago and the motor turned out to be a real dog. He asked the GM dealer what the engine was good for and the dealer told him it would make a good boat anchor! About 6 months ago a bought a Goodyear Wrangler truck tire at a cost of about $230 and with less than 200 miles I ran a piece of wood through the sidewall. It was my tough luck and I had to eat that $230.

DT Guy said:

My initial reaction was that anyone who would be willing to do that, wouldn't be somebody you'd want to make you a barrel.

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Mine as well.

taliv said:

Pretty much agree with everything above. However I did have a conversation with the owner of rock creek many years ago and he was talking about making tool steel barrels. He offered to make me one if I would pay for it.

he may not take your blank but he might make you one out of steel he sources

it’s worth a phone call

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I would bet not M2, M48 or other HSS.

I don't know why anyone would. Normal barrels are made of 4140, 4150 or 416 stainless, and they are tempered below maximum hardness to improve fracture toughness. And we don't see these losing rifling.

Yes, cobalt, nickel or tungsten tool steels in a harder condition would resist throat erosion better. But at what cost? And then there's the danger of using high hardness alloys that will shatter like glass when their limits are reached. How materials fail can be just as important as when they fail, if not moreso. Do they bend, stretch and tear, or do they snap/shatter and turn into shrapnel?

If I were going to make a barrel out of a different alloy with the intent of better throat life, I would use 8620 and do carburized double heat treat on it after chambering. It can achieve >60 Rc case hardness, but has a softer core, so not prone to fracture like through-hardned tool steels. But that, like nitriding internally, is tricky due to dimensional changes and material growth.

But alas, regular old chromoly or 416SS barrels have worked just fine for me.

I think OP got the idea that a harder barrel=better barrel and then googled for the hardest steel alloys and bought a chunk of material in that group that he could find. Unfortunately, he does not seem to have spent the time researching what combination of mechanical properties make certain alloys suitable for barrels and others not at all. Tensile strength and hardness are important mechanical properties, but certainly not the only ones that matter. I wouldn't use tool steels for a suppressor tube for the same reason I wouldn't use them for a barrel. We want pressure vessels to have more moderate hardness with some ductility, and we want the materials to fail in a way that they won't send dozens of razor sharp projectiles in all directions if they do let go.

Also, firing rounds through a barrel made of annealed martensitic or precipitation hardening alloys will not result in hardening. M48 requires a specific multi-step heat treatment process and subsequent tempering.