How to make primers?

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

Howa 9700

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
1,228
Assuming someone wanted to go into the business of making new primers, what would be involved? I'm talking from just the physical aspect of it. Legal aspect is another issue.

Seems like it would take stamping machines for the cup and anvil, and perhaps a press to form them. Are those specialty machines that can be pulled off the shelf or something that was a one of that existing makers have that can no longer be sourced?

But then it would only take the primer mix, which is apparently well known.

In short, how hard could this be?
 
Howa 9700 said:
Assuming someone wanted to go into the business of making new primers, what would be involved? I'm talking from just the physical aspect of it. Legal aspect is another issue.

Seems like it would take stamping machines for the cup and anvil, and perhaps a press to form them. Are those specialty machines that can be pulled off the shelf or something that was a one of that existing makers have that can no longer be sourced?

But then it would only take the primer mix, which is apparently well known.

In short, how hard could this be?
Click to expand...
are you thinking of starting a Primer Factory? that’s cool
 
Aardvark is showing how to reload spent primers, but following the process is helpful. As is the Federal video.

So to make new primers, it seems one needs to only stamp and form the cup, stamp and form the anvil, have the priming mix. The only specialty items I see are the tooling needed to stamp and form the cups and anvils, and then the plates to mate it all up. It just doesn't look that complicated.

There is an economic principle that states that "excess profits breeds ruinous competition".

As simple as this seems to be, not sure why new primer makers are not popping up all over. Or why Vista simply hasn't doubled what they have.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Aardvark is showing how to reload spent primers, but following the process is helpful. As is the Federal video.

So to make new primers, it seems one needs to only stamp and form the cup, stamp and form the anvil, have the priming mix. The only specialty items I see are the tooling needed to stamp and form the cups and anvils, and then the plates to mate it all up. It just doesn't look that complicated.

There is an economic principle that states that "excess profits breeds ruinous competition".

As simple as this seems to be, not sure why new primer makers are not popping up all over. Or why Vista simply hasn't doubled what they have.
Click to expand...

My guess is there are tons of ATF and EPA regulations that make entry into the field very difficult. Likewise insurance may be a huge issue, especially if you have no experience with manufacturing, chemistry and the firearms industries.
 
The mechanical process of manufacturing primer cups and anvils is pretty basic. It's just stamping.
The process of mixing and inserting the primer compound and anvil is basic also. As is the packaging machines.

The money is in the actual machinery that does the task with a quantity and quality that makes it all worthwhile. Then you need to add in the safety precautions with the primer compound and ingredients. With an item that sells for 1 - 2 cents each to a distributor, you need to make boat loads of them, very quickly, to make any money at it.
 
The primer mix (actually a slurry) is the biggest issue with actually making primers. It's been recounted here and elsewhere, but a consistent mixture requires a skilled person. From what I have heard, employees who can turn out a good product repeatedly get incentives and bonuses, but that's nothing I have firsthand knowledge of.

Also the equipment needed to turn out a profitable quantity - that tends to get pricey.

That's just the physical aspect of it. I'm sure there's other legal issues.
 
I doubt very much anyone will truly succeed @ making good primers @ home. You simply cannot have the level of QC the ammo makers have. I appreciate your efforts, and if anyone can show me otherwise, I'd love to see it.
 
Bcwitt said:
I doubt very much anyone will truly succeed @ making good primers @ home. You simply cannot have the level of QC the ammo makers have. I appreciate your efforts, and if anyone can show me otherwise, I'd love to see it.
Click to expand...

With that attitude benchrest shooters would be winning with factory ammunition vs handloads but that’s not the case. I am not saying a large manufacturer is incapable of making match winning ammunition but it’s not uncommon in competitive worlds for people to make their own ammunition to gain a competitive advantage, if they couldn’t match or exceed the efforts of “ammo makers” it would be a fools errand.

As simple as this seems to be, not sure why new primer makers are not popping up all over.
Click to expand...

The popping part could be a reason many businesses are consolidated, like powders that are used (name stuck on a retail container) by many but only made by a few.

The risk/reward and the fact that they historically have been the cheap component in ammunition.

If one has been around long enough, they have seen topics go from “is reloading really worth it?” To, “is it worth reloading 223/9mm (or some other common round)?

Then when things tighten up a little, “what press?”, “thinking about casting.” Etc.

Then after full panic sets in, “where’s the _____?” , “why don’t they build new plants to meet the latest artificial demand?”

The big manufacturers, historically, have not catered to the “buy high, sell load” crowd.

Takes time and money to get everything online then unlike all the new little mfg’s that bit the dust after the Obama/Sandyhook panic, the larger guys just wait it out, stay busy and see what the market will put up with cost wise. Want to change that? Vote for people that eliminate import restrictions. They don’t have the same hoops to jump through. By hoops, I mean the ones that cause other business to also off shore and have made it so we don’t even have any primary lead smelting plants inside the US anymore.

So, if you are using lead obtained from mined resources, you can be a “only USA” product person. Then again, if you were a person that only used USA goods, you couldn’t be reading this anyway.
 
Last edited:
jmorris said:
With that attitude benchrest shooters would be winning with factory ammunition vs handloads but that’s not the case. I am not saying a large manufacturer is incapable of making match winning ammunition but it’s not uncommon in competitive worlds for people to make their own ammunition to gain a competitive advantage, if they couldn’t match or exceed the efforts of “ammo makers” it would be a fools errand.



The popping part could be a reason many businesses are consolidated, like powders that are used (name stuck on a retail container) by many but only made by a few.

The risk/reward and the fact that they historically have been the cheap component in ammunition.

If one has been around long enough, they have seen topics go from “is reloading really worth it?” To, “is it worth reloading 223/9mm (or some other common round)?

Then when things tighten up a little, “what press?”, “thinking about casting.” Etc.

Then after full panic sets in, “where’s the _____?” , “why don’t they build new plants to meet the latest artificial demand?”

The big manufacturers, historically, have not catered to the “buy high, sell load” crowd.

Takes time and money to get everything online then unlike all the new little mfg’s that bit the dust after the Obama/Sandyhook panic, the larger guys just wait it out, stay busy and see what the market will put up with cost wise. Want to change that? Vote for people that eliminate import restrictions. They don’t have the same hoops to jump through. By hoops, I mean the ones that cause other business to also off shore and have made it so we don’t even have any primary lead smelting plants inside the US anymore.

So, if you are using lead obtained from mined resources, you can be a “only USA” product person. Then again, if you were a person that only used USA goods, you couldn’t be reading this anyway.
Click to expand...
Can YOU make primers? Because I sure cannot.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Aardvark is showing how to reload spent primers, but following the process is helpful. As is the Federal video.

So to make new primers, it seems one needs to only stamp and form the cup, stamp and form the anvil, have the priming mix. The only specialty items I see are the tooling needed to stamp and form the cups and anvils, and then the plates to mate it all up. It just doesn't look that complicated.

There is an economic principle that states that "excess profits breeds ruinous competition".

As simple as this seems to be, not sure why new primer makers are not popping up all over. Or why Vista simply hasn't doubled what they have.
Click to expand...

The same reason new toilet paper manufacturers didn't pop up last year. Times aplenty will be back soon enough, as it always goes, and prices will drop again, and demand will decrease. It takes a lot of money to increase production of primers, and if the demand isn't going to be long-term, it's just not worth it. And I suspect the profit margin isn't very high in primers (normally).
 
Bcwitt said:
Can YOU make primers? Because I sure cannot.
Click to expand...

I have never had to but I might some day as I always enjoy learning, I still have primers from before Clinton signed the AWB in 94 and have more primers now than I did then, so it’s not very high on my list.

I have made my own BP before and lab was the one part of chemistry I always enjoyed. If I ever go down that path the EPH20 here would be my first pick http://www.aardvarkreloading.com/resources/Homemade Primer Course 2019-06-28.pdf

I have always been of the mindset that people that say they can and people that say they can’t, often have one thing in common, they are both right.
 
Times of hardship often bring about creativity and thinking "outside the box". I envision an electronic ignition over the combustion process using nano technology. Primers when struck would emit an electrical charge similar to that of a piezo crystal. This rids the primer as being classified as a explosive device. With miniature and microscopic manufacturing techniques it could be possible.

My profession deals with building automated manufacturing processes & equipment. To build primer making machinery would require production in the millions and billions for a return on the investment. With anything demand brings about innovation, so how severe is the demand?
 
Rembrandt said:
With anything demand brings about innovation, so how severe is the demand?
Click to expand...

First thing anyone doing a market analysis is going to ask, once the obvious demand is pointed out, is how long has it been there and how sustainable is it?
 
Rembrandt said:
Times of hardship often bring about creativity and thinking "outside the box". I envision an electronic ignition over the combustion process using nano technology. Primers when struck would emit an electrical charge similar to that of a piezo crystal. This rids the primer as being classified as a explosive device. With miniature and microscopic manufacturing techniques it could be possible.

My profession deals with building automated manufacturing processes & equipment. To build primer making machinery would require production in the millions and billions for a return on the investment. With anything demand brings about innovation, so how severe is the demand?
Click to expand...
This was already a thing and it failed. Remington Etronic primers...
 
Havok7416 said:
This was already a thing and it failed. Remington Etronic primers...
Click to expand...

I'm contemplating something different than how the Etronx worked. It used a 9 volt battery to ignite the primer. I'm thinking of a primer that still requires a physical firing pin strike that would in turn generate its own electrical charge, thereby eliminating the battery. Piezo crystal type ignition.
 
Rembrandt said:
I'm contemplating something different than how the Etronx worked. It used a 9 volt battery to ignite the primer. I'm thinking of a primer that still requires a physical firing pin strike that would in turn generate its own electrical charge, thereby eliminating the battery. Piezo crystal type ignition.
Click to expand...

Are you thinking something similar to the ignition system on a propane grill? That could be very interesting!

chris
 
So consensus seems to be process of making primers is simple enough, but not feasible due to cost of machinery and not economically feasible long term due to historically low profit margins.

On the cost of machinery, it would be interesting to see what it would actually cost to setup a small line. If the machinery is custom "one of" or if it is adapted from widely available equipment. Also find it fascinating that for such a long produced product, there seems to be such an "art" not "science" factor that revolves around a few key employees. Would also be interesting to know how many primers these outfits actually produce in a day. What total capacity is.

So in the domestic world, it seems there are four outfits now making primers. CCI, Federal, Remington (which is said to be back up and running) and Olin (Winchester). Three of the four (CCI, Federal and Remington) are now under the Vista roof. Only Olin remains as a competitor. They make their own ammo, plus that what comes out of Lake City.

If Remington is back up and running, then supply may start catching up. But it is troubling to me to have so many eggs in Vista's basket. If the wrong sort were to ever get control of that, we are in big trouble.
 
There are some barriers to entry that would need to be considered beyond the initial capital investment.

Just obtaining insurance could be a daunting task. For example:

Commercial Property Insurance - You’re dealing with volatile materials with risks of fire and explosion. Convincing a carrier like Factory Mutual to insure your operation might be difficult and expensive. You would be a start up, with no history or experience. They will nitpick you to death

Product liability insurance - again, you aren’t Federal who’s been doing this for decades. If you’re able to convince a carrier to provide coverage, you’ll pay a lot more for it than your competitors who have a historic track record of liability risks that set their rates.

You’ll have local, state, federal approvals and licenses to obtain before you sell your fist unit.

Something as simple as your packaging will need to be tested for safety and demonstrated to the Federal DOT prior to commercialization. Every state in the country has their own DOT and they may also require you to do additional testing as well.

You see what I’m getting at. There’s probably a good reason there are only a few companies making primers and unless you have some deep pockets it’s likely not a viable small business start-up model
 
Howa 9700 said:
On the cost of machinery, it would be interesting to see what it would actually cost to setup a small line.
Click to expand...

How small, the video in #4 shows what they use for 1000 at a time from 3:48 to 4:38.

One at a time would be less expensive, almost free if you have a lathe and mill.
 
Baby steps. First reload spent primers, then make them.
Kind of like making your own jacketed bullets. Start making .224 bullets from 22lr cases then buy the stuff to make your own jackets.
 
There is a u-tube video on doing it. It's not hard to remake primers from used ones. The video shows how and the author used the tips of kitchen wood matches to be the oxidizer agent.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

V
  • Locked
seating primers
Replies
8
Views
747
raddiver
R
Legionnaire
Make your own primers?
Replies
15
Views
702
Legionnaire
Legionnaire
C
  • Locked
Automatic Primer System on RL550
Replies
3
Views
504
DILLONHELP
D
coloradokevin
  • Locked
If you make it idiot proof, they'll make a better idiot!
Replies
9
Views
1K
coloradokevin
coloradokevin
Brad Cobb
  • Locked
Spent Primers: reloading components and ammunition are unobtainium
Replies
7
Views
1K
Walkalong
Walkalong
Back
Top