Hot .38 or mild .357

Just a thought; I would use 38 Specials pushing the bullet to it's most effective velocity (jacketed bullets should reach the "expansion threshold" velocity and cast should reach the velocity for good penetration and effectiveness on target). I see a lot of comments about using the most powerful, highest velocity possible from a cartridge for an SD round, but I'm in the "a good hit from a 900 fps bullet is better than a miss from a 1400 fps bullet" camp and my SD handloads reflect that.

I won't post the actual loads just because I'm sure I'd get some interesting reactions but I've done research on the strength of brass when it comes to 38 special and I generally load my 38's all pretty warm. I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 357 and Security Six in 357 and use W231 with great joy. No flat primers and my brass doesn't stick in the cylinder. Most importantly the accuracy of that 4" S6 and 5.5" Blackhawk are awesome with those loads...still very economical for powder usage and easy shooting compared to full house 357 mag loads.

lordpaxman said:

One should be mindful of the pressure as well as the velocity. Choosing fast powders for full or high velocity loads can get you in dangerous pressure territory. It can be mitigated somewhat in .38 special fired in a .357 frame but it’s not advisable to push limits that way. I choose faster powders for a given weight bullet and PF for a lower felt recoil. If I want full power loads, slower powders do well. I won’t speculate why the OP would like a faster powder for a short barrel, but TG, Bullseye and 231 all work really well in .38. Good luck.

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The OP said he doesn't like full power 357 loads.
The reason for fast powder is the faster powder has less muzzle blast for the same velocity. Slow powders take over once the far powders can't safely reach the intended velocity.

6.5 gr Unique and a 158 SWC is my go-to for mid range .357 loads, and based upon several other posters a similar load is theirs, too.

It starts to buck a bit more in anything smaller-lighter than a 4” K frame .357 Model 13/19 etc.

My go-to for .38 Spl. loads using the 158 SWC is 4.5 gr Unique. It’s not God-awful even in a S&W 642, in a 4” K frame 10/14/15 etc. it’s a pussycat.

You could split the difference and try a starting load with a 158 gr SWC around 5.6-5.8 gr Unique or so in .357 cases and see how those work for you... 5.8 should be about the same velocity in .357 cases as the old FBI .38 +P load according to numerous posts over the years.

Good luck finding the load you’re looking for.

Stay safe.

I love those guns of yours too!

Walkalong said:

14.5 Grs 2400 and a coated 158 Gr SWC for a "full" load that shoots great. (.357 brass)

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I have to try that load with the coated Brazo's 158gr SWCs that I have. That has to be a "fire breathing dragon" of a load.

I load what I call a "38 Heavy Duty", which is a 158 gr Speer JSP over 5.0grs W231 in 38 spl cases. I only have 357 guns, so no worries about putting them into something like a Police Positive or M&P. I estimate that load is running about 950fps out of my 4.75" SAA clone. Recoil is pretty mild compared with full house .357's, as is noise and flash, and it's a fairly accurate load. So far, it's been responsible for the demise of several critters around the farm and while nosing around the woods. Bear in mind however, that this load is not in any of the books; five grains of 231 is Hodgdon's max for lead bullets in .357, however it is well under the max for jacketed bullets. It is also what Lyman's 3rd edition pistol book calls a "+P" load for 38 special. This load may very well be over pressure, but I've noticed no signs of it (no bulged cases/primers, no hard to extract cases) in my revolver. So, use it at your own risk.

If you are loading lead bullets, I use 3.2grs of 231 for my "plinkers" and go up to 4.0grs for a "heavy woods" load though it isn't that "heavy". It is, however .3 grs over Hodgdon's max for a LSWC so again, use at your own risk. I will say it dispatches critters quite well, though. And again, has shown no signs of being over pressure. Recoil is very, very mild and it is actually pretty pleasurable to shoot.

Mac

Unique
win231/HP38
HS-6
Universal

kalielkslayer said:

...The SP101 has a 2.5” Barrel and I don’t really care for the recoil of a .357 in that gun so when I carry it, I carry +P rounds which are manageable.

As I start to reload for it I was wondering what would be better?

With the short barrel, I was going to go with a powder on the fast end of .38 powders. Any suggestions?

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---
The question was about loads for a snub barrel - a 2.5" SP-101.

Stick to the old recipes (John Taffin and Chuck Hawks have written extensively about the older police loads) for snubby Police revolver loads for Detective and Chief's Specials: Unique, Bullseye, Red Dot, HP38, Hi-Skor 700x, and W231. Fast-burning, low volume, low-flash, but plenty for a small-frame, short barrel revolver at close (legal SD) range. The SP-101 is strong enough not to notice such lite loads - and your accuracy will improve for the low-flash and low-recoil.

I've used 5.7 grains HP-38 in 357 case and 125 grain Xtreme flat point(plated) in my SP101 2.25" for plinking. Moving up to 158grain Xtreme FP / 6.4 grains hp-38/357 case. Hodgdon data shows 6.2 gr hp-38 starting load for 158 gr xtp jacketed. Note these both use a 357 case.

db_tanker said:

I won't post the actual loads just because I'm sure I'd get some interesting reactions but I've done research on the strength of brass when it comes to 38 special and I generally load my 38's all pretty warm. I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 357 and Security Six in 357 and use W231 with great joy. No flat primers and my brass doesn't stick in the cylinder. Most importantly the accuracy of that 4" S6 and 5.5" Blackhawk are awesome with those loads...still very economical for powder usage and easy shooting compared to full house 357 mag loads.

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FWIW; Early in my "experimenting stage" I sectioned a 38 Special case and a 357 Magnum case. The head thickness/measurements were almost identical so I loaded some 38 Special brass with my "hot" 357 Magnum loads (taking into consideration the smaller case volume of the 38). No noticeable difference. I measured cases before and after firing in my 4" 357 Magnum revolver. No difference between 38 and 357 brass strength I could see...

Slow pistol powders like H110/W296 and Accurate #9 will give highest velocities in the 357 regardless of barrel length, with a large accompanying muzzle blast. Medium speed powders like Accurate #5, Unique, and HS-6 will give highest velocities in the 38 Special. Faster powders can be used in both at a cost of reduced velocity, though the reduction in muzzle blast may make velocity loss worthwhile. Especially with 357 loads from a short barrel.

Among the powders you listed, I suggest trying W231 and HS-6 first.

mdi said:

FWIW; Early in my "experimenting stage" I sectioned a 38 Special case and a 357 Magnum case. The head thickness/measurements were almost identical so I loaded some 38 Special brass with my "hot" 357 Magnum loads (taking into consideration the smaller case volume of the 38). No noticeable difference. I measured cases before and after firing in my 4" 357 Magnum revolver. No difference between 38 and 357 brass strength I could see...

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I've used the same restraint...I actually prefer looking at the data that shows the pressure levels. I've actually found that using that restraint I've made awesome plinking loads using Berrys and Xtreme plated bullets. They give nearly similar ballistics for accuracy and they keep me looking at loads under 1200 fps.

I've finally been able to find reliable commercial load data for HS7 and WAP as well for most weights...since I have 6 lbs of HS7 and 7 lbs of WAP I only am worried about primers and I've got enough for what I need right now.

The 38 / 357 is awesome for this kind of range fun.

D

100-125 gr bullets are good and you get more fps from them.

I use a load that's midway between low end .357 and +P .38 in a .357 case. about 5.3 gn of W231 under a 158 gn XTP shoots well with acceptable recoil.

Using 38 Special brass, I shoot 158 gain bullets at 1100 fps from 4” barrels and 1200 fps from 6” barrels, same powder charges of AA#9 or H110 or A2400 powders.

Walkalong said:

Not really, 1250ish from my 4" 586. A little faster from the 6" Colt, about the same from the 6" Smith.

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I just loaded some up so next time I get to the range I will try them.

Walkalong said:

3.8/4.0 Grs WST or Competition and an X-Treme 158 Gr SWC for light plinkers that shoot very well. (.357 brass)

7.3 Grs BE-86 and an X-treme 158 Gr SWC for awesome midrange loads (Stolen from @tightgroup tiger) (.357 brass)

14.5 Grs 2400 and a coated 158 Gr SWC for a "full" load that shoots great. (.357 brass)

I occasionally shoot full loads in my 2 1/2" 686, but midrange loads are more pleasant.
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I shoot a lot of light loads in my 4" 586 that has the red dot on it, I shoot plates out to 100 with this all the time.
View attachment 983068

Full loads are more fun in the Trooper MKIII or the S&W M28-2. (Love all four of these.)
View attachment 983069
View attachment 983070

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Nice!!!
Years ago I ran a 4" bbl'd 586-3 with a redot on it for general range play. Put the dot on it, hit the loud button and fun things happened.

wash-rince-repeat