Black Powder Cartridge

I load 45/70 for a rolling block I built to shoot BP cartridge silhouette. It was originally an Egyptian contract rifle in 43 Egyptian. It's a real hoot as well. There's something about lobbing bowling balls at something 500 yards away.

I shoot my 44-40, 40-82 and 45-70 1886 Winchesters with BP only.

I load mostly BP 45 colt, all shotgun sizes I own, 32 S&W , 38 special even going to do some .303 british there are a few others like 30 30 that I have the reloading gear for but not a firearm LOL my priorities are a little skewed.

There is an active discussion of black powder revolvers here, albeit probably more heavily weighted to cap and ball revolvers.

I participate in both the Frontiersman (cap and ball revolver) and Fontier Cartridge Duelist categories in SASS competition so load quite a bit of black powder 45LC, albeit rarely to 30 grains or more BP, with the 200 grs Big Lube bullet. Of course, it is not really possible to produce black powder loads equivalent to the original 45 Colt government loading because there is less case capacity in modern cases that there was in the original balloon head cases. The most I have ever gotten in a modern case with a 250 grs bullet is 36 grs Fffg, with an awful lot of compression. They are pretty impressive ! The original Schofield (Frankfurt Arsenal) load was 30 grs Fffg, so hardly "gutted". And its adoption was to simplify logistics when both the Colt SAA and Smith & Wesson No 3 were in service.

I also shoot in a competition requiring firearms of pre 1898 design and load both Paper Patched and GG 45-70 for a Pedersoli Remington Rolling Block as well as 9.5x47R (kind of like a bottleneck 38-55) for a pre 1883 built 1871 Mauser pattern rifle.

I'm going to start loading BP 45-70 for this very soon.

Black powder cartridge loading for 45-70, 44-77, .45 colt, 38 Smith Wesson, 30- 30 wcf, so it's not all about cap and ball revolvers.

dickydalton said:

I'm going to start loading BP 45-70 for this very soon.

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• dickydalton
• Mar 10, 2021

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Looks a lot like mine. Mine loves the Montana Bullet Works Lyman 535 grs Postell over 67 grs 1.5 Fg Olde Eynsford. I'm still dialing in a paper patched load with the 500 grs Brooks.

DocRock said:

Looks a lot like mine. Mine loves the Montana Bullet Works Lyman 535 grs Postell over 67 grs 1.5 Fg Olde Eynsford. I'm still dialing in a paper patched load with the 500 grs Brooks.

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Me too... mines an awfull lot like that one too.
Doesn't like the postell, a 480 grn spire point Lyman currently gives the best accuracy with greaser bullets and a taper 500 paperpatch from.....uhhh...hell cant recall right now are my best bets

I’ve been reloading 45-70, 45colt and 44-40 for years. Only with black powder of course! I started out with 45-70 and a Lyman hand tool. Now that’s tough going!

50-70 in an original 1869 rolling block. Front globe sights, rear tang, Hadley eyecup. 1:24 twist, 6 groove

I shoot BP cartridges too. .45 Colt and 44 WCF. Also 12 gauge in brass hulls.

35 gns FFFG GOEX in my 45 colt. Its a very stout load with my 250 grain big lube design cast lead rnfp

I load BP cartridges in 45 Colt for a Ruger New Vaquero and 45/70 for a Navy Arms Rolling Block. The ammo is simple to hand load and has been very accurate. Not brass but when I can get some paper 12 gauge hulls I'm going to make up some shells to use in an old Stevens SxS. I prefer to use BP cartridges in modern guns to using conversion cylinders in cap and ball revolvers.

I'm one of those odd people who doesn't mind the slight extra effort to clean BP brass.

Jeff

Yep, two Model 1873 Springfields, one carbine and one rifle. Carbine load is the 400 grain bullet (416 out of my mold) over 70 grains, and my rifle load is the Speer 400 grain JSP over 80 grains. I shoot the rifle load in my Marlin 1895 also, as I don't want any smokeless loads to find their way into the Springfields.

DocRock said:

Looks a lot like mine. Mine loves the Montana Bullet Works Lyman 535 grs Postell over 67 grs 1.5 Fg Olde Eynsford. I'm still dialing in a paper patched load with the 500 grs Brooks.

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I have those bullets but not that powder.

Dave T said:

Don't see much discussion of black powder cartridge firearms or shooting here.

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Then you have not seen much of what I post here. I don't shoot Cap & Ball anymore, don't have the patience for it. All of my shooting in Cowboy Action for close to 20 years now has been exclusively with Black Powder cartridges. 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, 38-40 and 45-70. I can't recall the last time I loaded Smokeless in any of those cartridges.

Left to right in this photo the cartridges are 44 Russian, 45 Schofield, 38-40, 44-40, 45 Colt and 45-70, all loaded with Black Powder.






I load most of my Black Powder cartridges on a Hornady Lock and Load AP progressive press. I use a Lyman Black Powder Measure on the press, instead of the standard Hornady smokeless powder measure. This is a batch of 45 Colts being loaded.






Here is a closeup of five 45 Colt rounds being loaded with BP on my Hornady press.






I buy old Lyman Smokeless powder measures whenever I find them on white elephant tables at gun shows. The rotor mechanism is the same as in the Lyman BP measure. I keep each rotor set for the standard powder charge I use in various cartridges.






Here is one of the rotors mounted in the Lyman BP powder measure on my Hornady press. I use the same charge of powder for both 45 Colt and 44-40. It is much quicker to pop a preset rotor into the powder measure rather than setting a rotor for a different cartridge each time.






I usually load 200 rounds at a sitting. Here is a batch of 200 44-40s hot off the press.






I taught myself to load cartridges on an old Lyman Spartan single stage press. I still use it for my 45-70 rounds.






I load my Black Powder 12 gauge loads on my old MEC Jr.






My usual CAS arsenal is a pair of 2nd Gen Colts chambered for 45 Colt, an Uberti 'iron frame' Henry chambered for 44-40, and an old Stevens SXS hammered 12 gauge. My black hat has lots of white powder stains from my 44-40 rounds bouncing off it.






I have no need to try to stuff 40 grains of powder into a 45 Colt. Modern solid head brass does not have the same internal capacity as the old Balloon Head cases. My standard 45 Colt load is about 35 grains of Schuetzen FFg under a 250 grain Big Lube bullet. Plenty of smoke and recoil.






I forget off the top of my head right now what my standard 12 gauge load is, but it makes plenty of smoke, flames, and noise.






I have a total of five rifles chambered for 44-40, and a couple chambered for 38-40. Some are antiques, some are of modern manufacture. They all only get fired with Black Powder. My favorite, hands down, is my Henry.






Sometimes a pair of antique Smith and Wesson Top Break New Model Number Threes chambered for 44 Russian come to a match instead of the Colts.








Sometimes an antique Merwin Hulbert comes along instead of one of the Smiths.








Once a year the Trapdoor comes along to a special match.

Here's my original 1869 roller. The original rifling was 1:42 and I've determined the throat is severely eroded to the point where the best group I could get with any load combination was 6in at 100yd and I'm convinced that was a fluke since it couldn't be duplicated. I tried my ammo in a friend's roller almost exactly like mine and at 50yds, it put 3 bullets into one hole you could cover with a quarter so I'm convinced the ammo wasn't the issue. The only repair for it is a reline so that's where it is at the moment.

Hmm, let's see,... 45/70 in a couple of trapdoors, 577 Snider, 577/450 Martini-Henry, 11mm Mauser, 43 Spanish. Working on some 10.4x38 Swiss tho' I understand that was a semi-smokeless round, whatever that means. Spent a lot of time working on a mystery chambering for an old drilling ending up with 44 caliber bullets in a 400 Nitro Express case trimmed to 65mm only to sadly find the gun was off the face.

Intend to do some 45 Colt some day,...

I load a variety of bullets in 45C for my conversion cylinders. 200grain RNFP, 250grain RNFP and 230 grain round nose. All hand cast. Occasionally I also shoot a “gallery” load of 454 round ball. The beauty of black powder, as long as the “no air space” safety feature is observed one can use a little or use a lot of powder. 28 grains of 3F an over powder card, a 1/8th lubed felt wad and both the 200 grain and 230 grain bullets work. Filling the case brim full and seating the 250 grain with a roll crimp and cap and ball revolvers become fire breathing dragons

I have an engraved stainless Vaquero in .45 Colt which I reserve for use with BP. The stainless is easier to clean, and the Big Lube bullets do a great job.

I also have been loading .38 Colt with heeled bullets and dies from Old West Bullet Moulds. I had kind of gotten bored with run-of-the-mill handloading, and learning the ins and outs of heeled bullets was entertaining.

I also have a Taylor's "Wyatt Earp" hammer double which has never seen a smokeless load. I am a terrible wingshooter, but buck or slugs in brass or paper hulls loaded with BP is a tremendously enjoyable way to put holes in the target frames while gassing everyone else on the line!

I also have an Uberti El Patron stainless in .45 Colt, which I shoot with a full 40 grain load under a 250RN. And two Janssen and Sons 12 gauge hammer guns that only shoot black. One with 30" barrels, and one with 18". (and 1/4", of course) The 30 inch gun was my Great Grandfathers, which I got at an early age, so I did shoot it with a lot with smokeless loads before I learned later in life that wasn't a great idea. But I tightened her up later in life and never shot another smokeless load again. She's very accurate with a 690" round ball.

The world record target array is farther away than targets at most SASS matches; pistol at 7 yards, rifle at 18 yards, shotgun at 10 yards. Ruger Old Model Vaqueros using .38 Special ammo, case full of 2F powder, Uberti 1873 with same loads, SKB 12 gauge double with 40 grains of 2F under 1 ounce of shot.

Shooting Josey Wales.