Contender brace? Sharps or Choate?

WestKentucky · Mar 5, 2021

I’m going to go ahead and take the plunge. I was seriously looking at doing a SBR but it’s just too much hassle and too much money for what I want to do. I’m going to put the money into other stuff though and hopefully end up happier anyways.

So, 14” and 10” pistol barrels, are what I have along with a work in progress 22lr barrel I am making. I want a braced pistol. What seems to be the better option? Sharps pistol grip with vertical picatinny attachment and add a folding brace to the pic rail, or a Choate pistol grip with buffer tube attachment, folding attachment, buffer tube, and the brace attachment that I already own? Sharps is a bit more expensive but seems a better product so I’m not shy on spending if it’s a better product. The Choate setup seems like too many parts slapped together to make something happen whereas the sharps would be 2 products.

WestKentucky · Mar 6, 2021

WestKentucky said:
I’m going to go ahead and take the plunge. I was seriously looking at doing a SBR but it’s just too much hassle and too much money for what I want to do. I’m going to put the money into other stuff though and hopefully end up happier anyways.

So, 14” and 10” pistol barrels, are what I have along with a work in progress 22lr barrel I am making. I want a braced pistol. What seems to be the better option? Sharps pistol grip with vertical picatinny attachment and add a folding brace to the pic rail, or a Choate pistol grip with buffer tube attachment, folding attachment, buffer tube, and the brace attachment that I already own? Sharps is a bit more expensive but seems a better product so I’m not shy on spending if it’s a better product. The Choate setup seems like too many parts slapped together to make something happen whereas the sharps would be 2 products.

Sharps was out of stock everywhere and no expected restock date. Decision made for me. I got everything except for the folding adapter for the AR stock. That part by itself will double the cost of the whole getup.

sean m · Mar 7, 2021

I put a shockwave brace on my Contender, used the choate pistol grip. All of my barrels are 10" except for the 357 octagon at the top. I've been swapping out the scopes for red dots since I like the lighter weight. I did have a folding adapter, found on Ebay, listed for "airsoft" on the buffer tube, but took recently since there was just to much slop in the part. With the bull 22 LR barrel, total weight is less than 4lbs.

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jmorris · Mar 7, 2021

WestKentucky said:
a Choate pistol grip with buffer tube attachment, folding attachment, buffer tube, and the brace attachment that I already own?

I think I’d just take a Choate and remove the plastic rear stock and attach the brace directly to the remaining post, that already fold up.

For that matter you might be able to just remove the butt pad and sand the plastic down to a “blade” just like the brace in the photo above.

WestKentucky · Mar 7, 2021

jmorris said:
I think I’d just take a Choate and remove the plastic rear stock and attach the brace directly to the remaining post, that already fold up.

For that matter you might be able to just remove the butt pad and sand the plastic down to a “blade” just like the brace in the photo above.

View attachment 983056

I don’t want to take any chance on running afoul of NFA by using a stock to make a not-a-stock. The setup I have coming will end up VERY similar to what @sean m has pictured in the last pic, but I can’t get myself behind the really short forend. I use a rifle forend on my 10” and like the feel a whole lot better. On the 14 I will use the one that came with my 3030 barrel because it just barely does what I want it to do. If I put a sling stud in the rifle forend it will work as a similar hand-stop.

dogtown tom · Mar 7, 2021

jmorris said:
....For that matter you might be able to just remove the butt pad and sand the plastic down to a “blade” just like the brace in the photo above....

Never. Ever.
A handful of "arm braces" were determined to not be shoulder stocks when attached to a firearm. That doesn't mean you are free to attach a gizmo and call it an arm brace thinking it will be okey dokey with ATF.
Homemade "arm braces" are not a slippery slope, they are a cliff above a tank of sharks with lasers.

jmorris · Mar 8, 2021

dogtown tom said:
A handful of "arm braces" were determined to not be shoulder stocks when attached to a firearm.

Not “a firearm”, the firearm submitted.

Seems like what I was talking about would fall into their objective design features.
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...r-classifying-weapons-with-stabilizing-braces

The linked information, would lead one to believe that a declared “brace” would be legal on the submitted firearm and might not be legal if attached to others.

So taking a brace that’s legal on an AR and putting it on something else wouldn’t be the brightest thing to do either.

From the above link.

FATD examines each weapon holistically on a case-by-case basis.

So if you were going to have to get their blessing anyway, why not make it the shortest path?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-do-i-send-firearm-or-ammunition-fatd-classification

dogtown tom · Mar 8, 2021

jmorris said:
Not “a firearm”, the firearm submitted.

Seems like what I was talking about would fall into their objective design features.
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...r-classifying-weapons-with-stabilizing-braces

The linked information, would lead one to believe that a declared “brace” would be legal on the submitted firearm and might not be legal if attached to others.

"Seems like"....."would lead one"......are not ATF determination letters. This is not the territory for trying to read ATF's mind. Those determinations are specifically for the item submitted and appy only to what was submitted. If you submit a preproduction sample, and after ATF issued a letter you make the slightest change.....your letter no longer applies even if its a minor detail. ATF determination letters aren't law or regulations, merely ATF's opinion at that time. They have always been subject to revision or reversal.

So if you were going to have to get their blessing anyway, why not make it the shortest path?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-do-i-send-firearm-or-ammunition-fatd-classification

It's not a blessing or even an approval..... its their opinion in writing. While submissions to FATD for a determination may sound easy, it may be a year or more before they get to you.

Want to see where an "approved arm brace" was later held to not be an approved arm brace? https://mcusercontent.com/557cc802f...5cd2/Q_LLC_6_02_02814_Cease_Desist_Letter.pdf
Now, just a few days later ATF backed down, The gist of ATF argument wasn't solely that SB Tactical arm brace, but that multiple factors are involved in determining whether an arm brace attached to a pistol creates an NFA firearm.

jmorris · Mar 8, 2021

dogtown tom said:
Want to see where an "approved arm brace" was later held to not be an approved arm brace?

Is that not the situation I was referring to with the “not “a” firearm but the firearm” Statement?

Is the “Please note...” at the end of the 2nd paragraph, page two of your linked document, reason to not take an AR brace, accompanied by several other components to attach to a different pistol and assume one would still be OK?

dogtown tom · Mar 8, 2021

jmorris said:
Is that not the situation I was referring to with the “not “a” firearm but the firearm” Statement?

When the first "arm braces" were submitted to ATF for determination...it was only the arm brace. As soon as it was on the market, there were dozens of companies submitting everything under the sun. ATF didn't like that and changed the rules, requiring further submission to have a firearm included.

Is the “Please note...” at the end of the 2nd paragraph, page two of your linked document, reason to not take an AR brace, accompanied by several other components to attach to a different pistol and assume one would still be OK?

That can only be answered by ATF.

I'm not sure what your point is.

sean m · Mar 8, 2021

WestKentucky said:
I don’t want to take any chance on running afoul of NFA by using a stock to make a not-a-stock. The setup I have coming will end up VERY similar to what @sean m has pictured in the last pic, but I can’t get myself behind the really short forend. I use a rifle forend on my 10” and like the feel a whole lot better. On the 14 I will use the one that came with my 3030 barrel because it just barely does what I want it to do. If I put a sling stud in the rifle forend it will work as a similar hand-stop.

The choate part I used was the M4 pistol grip, and then a handgun buffer tube was added to it. The receipts for both purchases are inside the buffer tube, if it was ever questioned. Figured that would keep the questioners at bay.

https://www.riflestock.com/store/product/thompson-contender-m4-pistol-grip/

sean m · Mar 8, 2021

In its current form, went with the shorter choate fore stock since it fits my octagon barrel's better.

WestKentucky · Mar 8, 2021

sean m said:
The choate part I used was the M4 pistol grip, and then a handgun buffer tube was added to it. The receipts for both purchases are inside the buffer tube, if it was ever questioned. Figured that would keep the questioners at bay.

https://www.riflestock.com/store/product/thompson-contender-m4-pistol-grip/
View attachment 983194

That’s what I bought, and I bought a standard length buffer tube, but the plan is to cut the back end of the buffer tube off and use a rubber tub stopper as a hatch. I will store basic stuff there... essentially the same thought process. Receipt for the pistol grip, receipt for the brace attachment, document from ATF approving the brace attachment. Possibly a couple rounds of ammo. I usually have a map of the area I’m hunting printed off if I don’t know the ground pretty well, so it can go there as well.

WestKentucky · Mar 10, 2021

Here it is in its new configuration. I need to buy my bathtub stopper and figure out where to cut off the buffer tube to allow some flexibility. Without castle nut though it can easily enough be screwed off to access the storage inside the buffer tube.

Choate m4 pistol grip adapter
AR buffer tube
Trinity force pistol brace.

also added hammer extension which I normally dislike but it’s hard not to like one on a contender.

JFrame · Mar 11, 2021

I guess I swap Contender configurations like a gentleman swaps neckties...

I had this configured for a short while with the Choate grip/adapter and Shockwave 2 brace (top photo).

At the moment, it has found its niche as a dedicated Super Colibri platform with this EABCO "coffee" thumbhole stock (bottom photo).

Contender thumbhole 22LR 08_05_2020 adj rsz.jpg

WestKentucky · Mar 11, 2021

JFrame said:
I guess I swap Contender configurations like a gentleman swaps neckties...

I had this configured for a short while with the Choate grip/adapter and Shockwave 2 brace (top photo).

At the moment, it has found its niche as a dedicated Super Colibri platform with this EABCO "coffee" thumbhole stock (bottom photo).

View attachment 983840

View attachment 983841

Well now that you mention it, I do have a 22 barrel mid-build on the workbench. I just need to weld the lug to the barrel, I have a stock and forearm, but they aren’t pretty laminate, just plain old beater type laminate.

gemihur · Jun 25, 2021

That laminate looks nice
I like wood

Contender brace? Sharps or Choate?

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