Darth-Vang
Member
Is there any significant advantage loading the cast ball’s sprue facing up? Also I saw someone pointed out that it doesn’t matter for revolvers cause the sprue gets shaved off anyway. Any advantage to loading the sprue facing up?
Loading cast balls with sprue facing up
- Thread starter Darth-Vang
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arcticap
Member
It allows you to see the location of the sprue and if it's centered or not.
david58
Member
In my rifles I load them sprue up. It pretty much gets rounded off during the loading process, since it is tap-tap-tapped all the way to the bottom.
DocRock
member
Many, many tests of conical, modern jacketed bullets have shown very limited impact on accuracy from nose deformation compared to base deformation. I haven't seen anything for round ball, but it suggests that sprue up may be the way to go.
44 Dave
Member
When I load ball separately, sprue up. When I use them in paper cartridges, sprue down. I can position the sprue centered on the bottom and I dip lube them and don't want a drip on the tip.
Sprue sideways could allow a flash to get by.
Sprue sideways could allow a flash to get by.
Stubert
Member
The reason I load sprue up is for consistency, If you can't see the sprue, you don't know what direction it's facing.
Jackrabbit1957
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Its for aerodynamics and trying to keep the weight centered in flight.
ThomasT
Member
I did that once and it does get rid of the little nib on my Lee round balls. But only do it when you can leave the house because its LOUD. It will drive you out of the house. I have read you can put them in a container so they can roll around and put them in your trunk or back of the truck and drive around and they will smooth the sprue out.
Or better yet put them in your wifes car so she can wonder what the hell that funny noise is.
Stubert
Member
If tumbling them removes the sprue, it also has to reduce the diameter. So your balls are what size? are the weights consistent?
Fingers McGee
Member
Potato potaatow.
Muzzle Loader magazine did a test 20 years ago shooting round ball out of flinters with the sprue intentionally off center and and found very little difference in the point of impact. Now in theory it should make a difference over distance by creating yaw as the ball travels. But round ball has a terrible ballistic co-efficient of .64 and most balls just don't travel very far. Most people believe sprue on top (or bottom) is the best choice to eliminate any deviation. I personally roll round balls between two pieces a heavy glass plates(thermo-pane glass). That will roll out the spruce eliminating that problem, but it will also create golf ball type dimples which cut wind resistance and are said in to improve the aerodynamics of the RB. Try to disprove that idea. Good Luck! Remember: All Pigs Can Fly If Given Enough Thrust. LOL
ThomasT
Member
Here's the proof. Mike Belevieue did the test with Chewed Balls and it did not seem to improve the flight of the ball at all.
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brewer12345
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Realistically, I am mashing a soft lead ball down the barrel with a ramrod. I imagine that when that happens I am deforming the top of the ball any way you slice it. So if there was a sprue on top, it was probably flattened on the way down. Considering I am shooting a round ball with open sights at up to 100 yards for fun or at large game, I can't imagine the variations will make a noticeable difference.
You're talking about the front of the ball, not the back where it could make a difference. There was a time when match shooters put the powder in from the breech end and the bullet was put in from the muzzle end with a bullet starter so the rifling cut into the bullet from the back end first. They didn't want any powder sticking to the sides of the bore, and if the bullet was also put in from the breech, then the rifling being cut into the bullet from the front to the rear would have small pieces pushed into and around the base of the bullet which would effect their group size. Sounds crazy, but in old time rifle matches if you showed up with a gun built by so and so, didn't matter who the shooter was, other shooters wouldn't shot against you.
I digress. With RB or most of us shooting informal matches for just fun maybe it doesn't matter if the sprue is down, but I try to keep the base, or bottom, as uniform as possible. Sprue up for me.
I digress. With RB or most of us shooting informal matches for just fun maybe it doesn't matter if the sprue is down, but I try to keep the base, or bottom, as uniform as possible. Sprue up for me.
whughett
Member
Too fiddly trying to position it while on the line. Personally I’m a decent shot but seriously doubt I’m that good too notice a difference.
Loyalist Dave
Member
The round balls for this type of rifles should be case from pure lead – not hardened, then the sprue cut should be smoothed or rounded with a small file or pocket knife, if the best accuracy is desired. I have heard of old riflemen, years ago, say that it mattered not whether the sprue surface of the ball is placed at the bottom or the top when loading the round ball rifle, but this is not reasonable and does not agree with my experience and that of the majority of experienced riflemen who use the muzzle-loading rifles. All experienced riflemen who use the modern high power rifles, as well as the most expert marksmen with the target or schuetzen breech-loading single shot rifles, know that the base of the bullet which rests against the powder and is first acted upon by the powder gas must be as perfect as possible, and each bullet have the same shape of base, in order to give good, uniform accuracy. Of course, these same conditions obtain in rifles using the round ball; therefore, as almost no two cast round balls have exactly the same shape at the point where the sprue was cut off …, Experienced experts agree that better accuracy with the round ball rifles will be secured by always loading the sprue surface of the ball at the top, or towards the muzzle.
…, Having decided upon the approximate charge of powder for the rifle and made a charger with which to measure this bulk charge, we are ready to load the rifle. Holding the barrel in nearly vertical position, as possible and having filled the charger full from the powder-horn, pour the charge carefully into the barrel; then place an oiled linen, or other cloth, patch over the muzzle being careful to center it over the bore. Next place the ball, with the sprue up, in the center of the patch – be sure that the ball is truly centered in the patch…,
…, Do not ram, or pound, the ball down the bore, and do not “whang” the ball with the ramrod onto the powder—simply seat the ball firmly on the powder with a light pressure on the ramrod. …, ramming or pounding the ball down the ball will upset it making it merely a slug of lead instead of a sphere and thus destroy all accuracy.
(italics are the author's emphasis)
Ned H. Roberts 1866-1948 Developer of the .257 Roberts cartridge and Author of The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle c 1940
LD
…, Having decided upon the approximate charge of powder for the rifle and made a charger with which to measure this bulk charge, we are ready to load the rifle. Holding the barrel in nearly vertical position, as possible and having filled the charger full from the powder-horn, pour the charge carefully into the barrel; then place an oiled linen, or other cloth, patch over the muzzle being careful to center it over the bore. Next place the ball, with the sprue up, in the center of the patch – be sure that the ball is truly centered in the patch…,
…, Do not ram, or pound, the ball down the bore, and do not “whang” the ball with the ramrod onto the powder—simply seat the ball firmly on the powder with a light pressure on the ramrod. …, ramming or pounding the ball down the ball will upset it making it merely a slug of lead instead of a sphere and thus destroy all accuracy.
(italics are the author's emphasis)
Ned H. Roberts 1866-1948 Developer of the .257 Roberts cartridge and Author of The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle c 1940
LD
Jackrabbit1957
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Makes sense to me!
Darth-Vang
Member
This makes alot of sense. Glad to know this.
whughett
Member
And yet Cap&Ball has vlogs on military rifles that actually used “square” slugs. It’s been a couple of years since I watched that video but if I recall he was pretty accurate with it too.
One other thing not yet mentioned is when you pour lead in the mold sometimes air gets trapped. It will want to come to the surface, or the sprue. With any air pockets near the center top of the ball you'll get better accuracy. One, because it's easier to keep any air pockets near the center if you can see the sprue centered in the bore. It's harder to keep it centered loading sprue down. You also want a thick sprue plate. When the ball or bullet solidifies it will draw lead from the sprue plate down into the mold. I watched it for years get a small " whirlpool" in the center never thinking about what was actually happening. You want to make sure it's thick enough for bigger projectiles.
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