1911 Series 70 or 80?

Series 80 has a firing-pin block. More moving parts, but otherwise, meh.

While a common topic, interestingly this just came up on one of the 1911 forums recently, and folks often refer to a Series 70 erroneously.

When folks say Series 70 these days, they really mean the 1911 doesn't have a firing pin safety. I'll assume that's what you mean, and are not talking about a Colt Series 70 that is distinguished by having a collet barrel bushing.

A 1911 without a firing pin safety (what most will refer to as a Series 70) will have fewer parts and is generally easier to detail strip.

A 1911 with a Series 80 firing pin safety will be more drop safe, but will have a few more parts and may be more difficult to detail strip the frame.

Edit to add: You will generally have more options with 1911's without a firing pin safety. There are only a handful of 1911 makers that offer a firing pin safety on their 1911's. Most come without a firing pin safety.

I've owned a number of both. I preferred to carry the 80's once they showed up.

Some will tell you the 70's have a better trigger, but I never noticed any difference. Take down isn't a big deal. If youre comfortable taking a 70 apart, you'll have no trouble with an 80.

For EDC, I would take Series 80. The trigger is perfectly fine for defensive accuracy, and the firing pin safety has no negative.

For shooting target matches, I would take a Series 70 style, as a glass break trigger is beneficial, and chances of the gun going on a kinetic journey are limited.

I'll choose the one without the extra "lawyer parts"

My Grandfather didn't need them back when he was fighting Germans.

He probably drove a car with a crank start too at one point, but saw the advantage of newer, safer cars because of tech advances. Central heat over coal stoves, So the firing pin safety falls into that area I’d say.

Generally speaking - I see one huge advantage in an 80 in most cases.

Just as I do with S&W's revolvers with trigger locks.

They cost less and work just as well.

Both the *80* parts and the trigger lock of S&Ws come right out for the fellas that think they're gonna die in a running gun-battle with cartel operatives due to the extra parts.

Of course - in a wonder-world (in which I do not currently live) where all things are equal - I'd rather have either firearm without the nanny-crutches if only for aesthetics in the revolver and simplification in the auto.... as well as resale.


Todd.

Previous posts explained the difference, but having carried and worked on both types I'll throw in my 2¢ worth. I was a Colt O-Frame armorer, and also carried a Colt Government Model daily for several years. I'm comfortable with 1911 types that have a firing pin safety, and those that do not. However my Dept. authorized only the Series '80 Colts with the FPS. The Series 80 FPS system never created an issue, and I was not at all offended that my primary weapon had a FPS like most modern pistols. In fact, I've not seen an unmodified Series 80 FPS system cause any issues. I was once at a public range, and saw a guy trying, unsuccessfully, to shoot his new Series 80 Colt. It would do everything except actually fire. Turned out he had completely filed off the FPS plunger lever of his new Colt, in doing a "trigger job". I have seen other stuff people have done to their guns with a FPS system, then blame the gun, etc. when the guns no longer function as designed. Though different in detail than the Series 80 Colt, the Series II Kimbers also have a FPS. I have some experience with those, and never encountered any issues with the Kimber system either.

Bottom line, unmodified guns of either type will likely give dependable service. As they likely will even if modified, IF the person doing the modifying knows what they are doing...

I have both and cant tell the difference in the trigger pull.

I have had Pre-Series 70, Series 70, and Series 80 1911s and for the most part they all have pretty much the same feel to them when it comes to their respective trigger pulls. Have experienced a tiny bit of initial "hesitation" on a couple of Series 80 guns but it was hardly noticeable after the gun had been used for awhile and basically went away over time.

I purchased a Colt Combat Commander many years ago in series 80 but when I stripped down the handgun I found the firing pin block mechanism was removed and a plate put in it's place to make it a series 70! I ordered the missing parts from Colt to put it back to a series 80.
I found no difference in either configuration and couldn't tell till I disassembled it. Safety wise I carry in a series 80 cocked and locked.

I have no problem with Series 80 style 1911s in general but I recently ran across one that was having issues directly related to this thread. The timing of the firing pin safety mechanism was off resulting in the plunger not being pushed fully out of the way when the hammer fell. This caused the plunger to get all chewed up from repeated impact by the firing pin and a damaged firing pin. Movement of the firing pin and the plunger was impaired by the physical displacement of metal and if it already hadn't happened I could see that sooner or later the peening would have gotten so bad that the pistol would fail to fire.

I chose to permanently fix the problem by fitting a grip safety actuated part to replace the lower actuating arm. I timed it so that the plunger was fully up and out of the way before the trigger was pulled.

Word to the wise, once in a while you should do a complete disassembly of the series 80 components and inspect them for the damage seen in the pics below.

Series 70. Easier to find parts for and maintain overall. Between the thumb and grip safety, I consider the 70 more than safe enough to carry without the extra parts.

There are any number of people, some moulded to their bean bags in their basements, who are absolutely and irrevocably welded to the notion that a "series 80" triggers are uniformly comparable to pulling an 18" length of #12 rebar through 24" of #3 crusher run limestone.

There are those who swear by the concentric nature of a collet bushing; others who swear the things disintegrate like grenades by being looked at wrong.

I've owned both, still do, come to cases. I've even busted a couple collet bushings (only one of those being a "finger break") the firearm and shooter both survived.

For carry, the important thing is actual reliability, not speculative reliability. Using other people's notions is merely speculative. Only your own experience can really educate.

CapnMac said:

There are any number of people, some moulded to their bean bags in their basements, who are absolutely and irrevocably welded to the notion that a "series 80" triggers are uniformly comparable to pulling an 18" length of #12 rebar through 24" of #3 crusher run limestone.

There are those who swear by the concentric nature of a collet bushing; others who swear the things disintegrate like grenades by being looked at wrong.

I've owned both, still do, come to cases. I've even busted a couple collet bushings (only one of those being a "finger break") the firearm and shooter both survived.

For carry, the important thing is actual reliability, not speculative reliability. Using other people's notions is merely speculative. Only your own experience can really educate.

Click to expand...

Great post.

BOTH collet bushings that have broken on me were also previously dropped by me. What I learned from that and other collets not breaking is; I need to not drop that rascal on cement.

Todd.

Series 80 for me. Never had any trouble with them nor
any problem in taking apart and reassembling.

One way around it, according to Ruger with its
1911 is to have an extremely light titanium firing
pin so if the gun if dropped muzzle first not enough
energy can be transmitted by the pin flying forward.

But I refer you back to Rock185's post #9. I think
he sums up everything best.

(As an hysterical historical note, per so many from1911 guru
Jeff Cooper, the Series 80 will be the doom of the
reliable 1911 design. He also predicted the outside
trigger bar on the Beretta 92s would be a total
disaster.)

My opinion:

Find a 1911 you like and don't worry about series 70 or 80. Then learn your gun and how to deal with or without the firing pin block (Kimber uses their own thing).

I have both, don't notice much difference of any in trigger feel (because each trigger has its own feel anyway) and don't have a strong preference.

Walkalong said:

The need for a firing pin safety in a properly made 1911 is a big nothing burger to me, so I am perfectly happy carrying one without it.

If you have plans to drop your 1911 from 20 feet in the air so it lands perfectly straight down on the muzzle, then maybe you need one.

Click to expand...

Suppose you are in a situation where you fall or are knocked down and the 70 series hits the ground in just the right way to go off? Things other that dropping the 1911 can happen... Just saying.
I like to go with just about any scenario that could happen even if it doesn't. I carry for myself and my family now but had to while on the job so I would rather be safe than sorry.

ApacheCoTodd said:

collet bushings that have broken on me

Click to expand...

I have two with radial cracks that did not slow shooting. Only the one that dumped a finger tip.

There used to be many column inches on "tuning" the fingers to have 'equal pressure' in the gun rags. Which, no doubt, kept the authors in Post Toasties. And probably led too many Bubbas to reach for pliers . . .

CapnMac said:

I have two with radial cracks that did not slow shooting. Only the one that dumped a finger tip.

There used to be many column inches on "tuning" the fingers to have 'equal pressure' in the gun rags. Which, no doubt, kept the authors in Post Toasties. And probably led too many Bubbas to reach for pliers . . .

Click to expand...

I had completely forgotten about the snake-oil of tuning them. Too funny. Was a guy too that advertised "balancing your 1911 firing pin for optimum performance" for when you have more money than sense.

To be fair - regarding my above statement - my *broken* collets were an issue of me over-examining the cracks from being dropped, than actually coming apart on their own.

The cracks showed up when I used brake-cleaner to clean. The cracked fingers, sure enough, showed the sign of hitting the cement on those fingers.

Of course, most know the poor-man's magna flux technique of using brake cleaner.

Todd.

CapnMac,

Some years ago I talked to a gunsmith and
his experience with the collet bushings. He
seemed to think that if they were fitted
improperly at the factory, they'd break.

If the assembler did his job correctly,
no problem. But assemblers at the
factory came in all levels of skill and
responsibility. (Of course the inside
of the slide and the barrel link also
could play a part.)

The idea was a decent one to achieve
an extra measure of accuracy without
the need for a skilled smith to work on
the optimum fitting of traditional bushings.

My Series 80 Government Models, acquired in the early-/mid-Nineties, were reliable. No problems to report.

If I have the choice of two for the same money it would be a 70. No drama with the 70. I have a 70 and like it. Most of the high end makers make/build 70's. I would think they would have a reason for doing that.