KAHR Auto Ordnance M1 carbine

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lionking

lionking

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Got one last week, decided on this compared to reviews of the new Inland. So test fire yesterday at 100 yds the 100 meter sight hits 12 inches or so low, 300 meter sight stays on paper but high. Rounds hit way to the right, trigger is gritty

Prvi SP seems to group ok, Lake City surplus and Fiocchi ammo spread pretty wide. I only did three shot tests once I saw how far off it is to conserve ammo. Fiocchi is very week ammo and did fail to extract also. Strange how Fiocchi handgun ammo tends to be hot but their rifle ammo always seems to be weak.

So gonna get a rear adjustable sight for it figuire I'll just get one from KAHR. Wish they would have offered from factory a rifle already installed with it because I'm not a fan of the flip sight.
https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/f...sembly-adjustable-mc003as.asp#product-reviews

IMG_7934.JPG
100_3167.JPG
100_3166.JPG
 
You might try filing down the front sight a little, then shooting a group, and repeat until you get the 100 yard on or a inch or two high at 100. This is what was done in WWII by Ordinance folks before the gun was issued to the troops. Keep in mind that if you cut off too much you can not unfile it back on!

The flip sight can be drifted left or right for windage with a brass punch and hammer again like it was done by the Army.

Personally I would adjust windage first and then elevation in case the reverse dove tail on the receiver is cut a little un level, but that is just me.

Even if you get the "adjustable" rear sight, it has marked range adjustments, not free elevation adjustment and to get the Point of aim to be the point of impact for evevation at 100 meters ( or what ever range setting you select) the front sight will need to be filed to that elevation.

I would try both front sight filling and rear sight drifting before replacing the rear sight.

do not forget to blacken the front sight after filing before each attempt to check zero.

-kBob
 
kBob said:
You might try filing down the front sight a little, then shooting a group, and repeat until you get the 100 yard on or a inch or two high at 100. This is what was done in WWII by Ordinance folks before the gun was issued to the troops. Keep in mind that if you cut off too much you can not unfile it back on!

The flip sight can be drifted left or right for windage with a brass punch and hammer again like it was done by the Army.

Personally I would adjust windage first and then elevation in case the reverse dove tail on the receiver is cut a little un level, but that is just me.

Even if you get the "adjustable" rear sight, it has marked range adjustments, not free elevation adjustment and to get the Point of aim to be the point of impact for evevation at 100 meters ( or what ever range setting you select) the front sight will need to be filed to that elevation.

I would try both front sight filling and rear sight drifting before replacing the rear sight.

do not forget to blacken the front sight after filing before each attempt to check zero.

-kBob
Click to expand...
I'll consider that but really don't like idea of having to file, a adjustable sight would just make it easier plus then when I have different ammo I can adjust accordingly. File the front, drift the rear is fine for one type of ammo but then a different ammo will be all wacked off target anyway.
 
So maybe I'm showcasing my inexperience here but I was always under the impression these weapons were a little more accurate than this.

For what it's worth, I almost bought a M1 Carbine, and was under the impression Aguila Ammunition is supposed to work really well in it. Obviously there are a lot of different makes for that rifle (since it came out during the war) so I'm not sure how the KAHR is going to hold up.
 
Tortuga said:
So maybe I'm showcasing my inexperience here but I was always under the impression these weapons were a little more accurate than this.

For what it's worth, I almost bought a M1 Carbine, and was under the impression Aguila Ammunition is supposed to work really well in it. Obviously there are a lot of different makes for that rifle (since it came out during the war) so I'm not sure how the KAHR is going to hold up.
Click to expand...

Too early to tell the accuracy of this new Auto-Ordnance I gave up on accuracy testing after I saw how far off the sights are, so far Prvi soft point seems to do the best, my Inland GI does well with Prvi FMJ, I don't have any Prvi FMJ right now to test, and in these times getting a bunch of different ammo to test is difficult.

Can say not a fan of Fiocchi rifle ammo , but am a fan of their handgun ammo. If I can keep 10 shots in the black of a SR1 target at 100 yds that will be fine for me all I expect is a 6 inch group at 100 yards.For the sight to be so far off from the factory am surprised at that.
 
I went the same route. I think mine was closer to POI, but I wanted the adjustable sights anyway.

I also bought a rear sight tool - I heard too many horror stories about broken mounts...and these are cast anyway.

I ended up with my rear sight adjustment centered, but the rear base between 1/16 and 1/8 inch to the left.

Also, I put BLO on the stock, it really brought out a lot of character in the wood. I started with the usual BLO/Mineral Spirits w/steel wool.

Just so you know, A GI Sling and oiler won't work with these stocks without filing.
 
Tortuga said:
So maybe I'm showcasing my inexperience here but I was always under the impression these weapons were a little more accurate than this.

For what it's worth, I almost bought a M1 Carbine, and was under the impression Aguila Ammunition is supposed to work really well in it. Obviously there are a lot of different makes for that rifle (since it came out during the war) so I'm not sure how the KAHR is going to hold up
Click to expand...
Now, to be fair, there are Carbines, and there are carbines.
The wartime production Carbines have demonstrated far better accuracy than most of the new repro stuff.

And, OP is reporting close to milspec accuracy (which was only in the 3-4 MOA range).

It's good to remember that the purpose of the Carbine was to replace handguns in Service use, and those handguns were in the 2-3 inch at 25 yards, around 8-10 MOA at 100, so the 3-4 was a huge improvment, as was being able to make hits at 150 yards.

The two-spring Universal I had was minute of barn accurate, occasionally minute of shed.

The Military ammo for the Carbine was not in huge variety, a 110gr FMJ, a ±90gr tracer; even today there's not a huge variety of ammo, there are not 90gr loads or 150gr loadings, so not a lot of variety to need to adjust the sights to. The old go-to was the white box Winchester, which was government spec. The Armscor is supposed to be similar, the Aquila a decent match as well. I have some of both, but have not taken my Saginaw out to test those.
 
It is a 50 yd jungle carbine. They were minuite of man guns. Even the new ones by Fulton Armory only guarantee 3 moa in their MATCH version. They make the best and that one costs 2300.
 
That Auto Ordnance is a good looking rifle!!

My M1 Carbine "1st birthday" will be June 26 this year, I'm up to six of them now!

Two of my Carbines are commercial (A Universal and an Iver Johnson). For whatever reason they both shot really low, about like yours. Your only real choice is to file the front sight down, been there, done that. You're new adjustable sight will have micrometer adjustments for windage and a slider preset for 100, 200, 250 and 300 yds., but it's not adjustable for elevation, per se. To bring your POI up to POA at 100 yds. you'll probably have to use the 250 yd. setting. If you decide to work the front sight over, here's a good sticky from the M1 Carbine - CMP Forum.

It's hard to tell for sure, but it appears that your carbine is reasonably accurate with Prvi. To get started loading this caliber and accumulate some brass, I bought several boxes of Prvi both FMJ and SP, and was very pleased with it, though it's not quite as accurate as handloads. But if I were to choose a factory load, Prvi would be it.

xO9YqNtl.jpg

I'd suggest you disassemble your carbine and check the recoil plate and barreled action. With the barrel band and handguard off, the recoil plate should hold enough tension on the rear of the receiver so that the barrel is suspended about 1/8" above above the end of the stock. If it isn't you might want to relieve a little wood under the plate so it will set down a tad further in the stock. Also, I've found about three thicknesses of posterboard type material under the handguard/on top of the barrel improves accuracy. The link I provided above explains a lot about accuracy.

army_eod said:
It is a 50 yd jungle carbine. They were minuite of man guns. Even the new ones by Fulton Armory only guarantee 3 moa in their MATCH version. They make the best and that one costs 2300.
Click to expand...

Many shooters who don't have much experience seem to think M1 Carbine's aren't very accurate, and I was the same way, expecting 5" or 6" 100 yd. groups. I was wrong and 6" groups, sometimes a bit smaller, at 200 yds. are quite attainable with good handloads.

I don't know why Fulton only guarantees 3" as I'm sure their Carbines will do much better. I recently shot a < 2 1/2" group with my 50+ year old Universal, so I'm sure the Fulton's are capable of groups under 3".

Last week I bought a sad looking IBM. It's been rusted pretty bad in the past, there's significant pitting under the wood line and had I taken time to look at the bore, I probably would've passed on it as it has quite a bit of pitting the last 6" or so. But after fiddling with the bedding and trying some loads with cast bullets, it's turned out to be a crackerjack of a shooter. I shot it at 100 yds. quite a bit this afternoon.

jRMmCvjl.jpg

So hang in there with your AO and please update this thread as I'm really interested to see how you come along with it.

35W
 
Just to throw it out there, my collection of parts that is nominally considered a M1 will post groups you can cover with a quarter at 100yds using Korean surplus. Wish I had more of it. With every thing else it seems to be a 2 inch+ gun. The Korean Ammo is good stuff.
 
I’ve had good luck with the Aguila the CMP was selling some years ago.

Workswell in in my ‘43 Underwood, not bad for a gun that’s almost an octogenarian.
 
swg1 said:
Just to throw it out there, my collection of parts that is nominally considered a M1 will post groups you can cover with a quarter at 100yds using Korean surplus. Wish I had more of it. With every thing else it seems to be a 2 inch+ gun. The Korean Ammo is good stuff.
Click to expand...

You have a 1MOA shooting M1 carbine? That must be close to a record. How many rounds in that group?

BSW
 
I'd call it one moa flukes. Three shots. In my before progressive lenses days. But again, that Korean Ammo is good stuff. But not $600 a case good. Wish I'd gotten some last year when it was three something for a case. I'd not seen it in years.
 
35 Whelen said:
That Auto Ordnance is a good looking rifle!!

My M1 Carbine "1st birthday" will be June 26 this year, I'm up to six of them now!

Two of my Carbines are commercial (A Universal and an Iver Johnson). For whatever reason they both shot really low, about like yours. Your only real choice is to file the front sight down, been there, done that. You're new adjustable sight will have micrometer adjustments for windage and a slider preset for 100, 200, 250 and 300 yds., but it's not adjustable for elevation, per se. To bring your POI up to POA at 100 yds. you'll probably have to use the 250 yd. setting. If you decide to work the front sight over, here's a good sticky from the M1 Carbine - CMP Forum.

It's hard to tell for sure, but it appears that your carbine is reasonably accurate with Prvi. To get started loading this caliber and accumulate some brass, I bought several boxes of Prvi both FMJ and SP, and was very pleased with it, though it's not quite as accurate as handloads. But if I were to choose a factory load, Prvi would be it.

View attachment 984741

I'd suggest you disassemble your carbine and check the recoil plate and barreled action. With the barrel band and handguard off, the recoil plate should hold enough tension on the rear of the receiver so that the barrel is suspended about 1/8" above above the end of the stock. If it isn't you might want to relieve a little wood under the plate so it will set down a tad further in the stock. Also, I've found about three thicknesses of posterboard type material under the handguard/on top of the barrel improves accuracy. The link I provided above explains a lot about accuracy.



Many shooters who don't have much experience seem to think M1 Carbine's aren't very accurate, and I was the same way, expecting 5" or 6" 100 yd. groups. I was wrong and 6" groups, sometimes a bit smaller, at 200 yds. are quite attainable with good handloads.

I don't know why Fulton only guarantees 3" as I'm sure their Carbines will do much better. I recently shot a < 2 1/2" group with my 50+ year old Universal, so I'm sure the Fulton's are capable of groups under 3".

Last week I bought a sad looking IBM. It's been rusted pretty bad in the past, there's significant pitting under the wood line and had I taken time to look at the bore, I probably would've passed on it as it has quite a bit of pitting the last 6" or so. But after fiddling with the bedding and trying some loads with cast bullets, it's turned out to be a crackerjack of a shooter. I shot it at 100 yds. quite a bit this afternoon.

View attachment 984742

So hang in there with your AO and please update this thread as I'm really interested to see how you come along with it.

35W
Click to expand...
Yep, what he said! :thumbup:

The first thing I did after aquiring both my Carbines ('43 Inland and 1st Gen. Universal) was disassemble, clean, grease, check the piston nut, and adjust the recoil plate "hang."

Both will produce consistent 2 MOA groups with Remington and Aguila FMJ and even better occasionally. Armscor ammo feeds reliability, but doesnt seem to group as well..

Frankly, Im shocked at how accurate mine are. My Dad thought I was pulling his leg telling him that he was hitting the same hole over and over at 50yds- and that was his first time shooting a Carbine. :what:
 
20201017_134207.jpg One of my Inlands has shot some pretty impressive 3-shot groups. Right after I got it I benched it just to see if it was close.
The first three shots were on the steel, I made an adjustment then fired three at the paper. Both groups are about 1 1/2".

Mv34Vgm
 
Just bought an AO carbine last week myself, so thanks for the update NIGHTLORD. AAFEES sells guns on line and you can have them delivered to the Army or Air Force Exchange of your choice. You have to keep hawking the site because it changes immediately and the good stuff doesn't last long before its sold out. Also got 200 rounds of Korean surplus .30 Carbine from SGAmmo and went halves with a buddy on their 1080 round can of the same. Haven't got to shoot it yet, but looking forward to it. Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine 1.jpg
 
Now I'm all wanting to get out to the range again with the little carbine and try out the brass deflector I got from Sarco.
 
I got 2 stocks - 1 was really rough-cut or something. Will need to be sanded to be smooth. The other will make a decent military stock:
PXL_20210320_010451191.jpg
The one on the left is the other "new" stock after a mineral spirits rubdown and BLO. The one on the carbine is the original AO stock after a good BLO treatment. It looked featureless and flat brown when I got it. Yes, rear sights are replaced.

FYI, the front band is too "Fat" on the bottom side, and it doesn't clip well (the factory one didn't clip so great either.) Sounds like a good time to put a bayo lug front band on. Also, the bottom metal is VERY tight in the GI stock, looks like the AO metal is a slightly different size.
 
maxxhavoc said:
I got 2 stocks - 1 was really rough-cut or something. Will need to be sanded to be smooth. The other will make a decent military stock:
View attachment 986009
The one on the left is the other "new" stock after a mineral spirits rubdown and BLO. The one on the carbine is the original AO stock after a good BLO treatment. It looked featureless and flat brown when I got it. Yes, rear sights are replaced.

FYI, the front band is too "Fat" on the bottom side, and it doesn't clip well (the factory one didn't clip so great either.) Sounds like a good time to put a bayo lug front band on. Also, the bottom metal is VERY tight in the GI stock, looks like the AO metal is a slightly different size.
Click to expand...
looks really good so what exactly is the requirements if I want to refinish my stock like you did? I think you mentioned steel wool earlier, did you sand it or just put lindseed oil on it?
 
BTW I ordered a adjustable sight from auto ordnance it is on the way.
 
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