Frightened & Defenseless

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RETG said:
Finally, someone noted dogs are different between breeds!

In my case, I do not want a guard dog. The job of guarding the house is mine and mine alone!
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I agree that dogs can do a variety of jobs, but you need the right dog for the job.

If I wanted to protect my home while I'm away I'd think a couple or three big mean dogs would get the job done in most cases, but I wouldn't want such animals as family pets.

But I think the subject at hand is more about protecting a home from invasion while you are present, and in that case a dog can be useful as an alarm more than anything else. The dog doesn't need to be big or mean to fulfill this function. It can't be one that barks at absolutely everything, but instead one that will bark if someone were breaking in. If someone were trying to get in a door or window while I was sleeping I'm sure the dogs would sound off and wake me.

My dogs have always been very friendly. I wouldn't want to live with any other type. I don't expect them to come to my defense if someone breaks in, although they might do that. I always look at it as the dog's job is to warn me of the threat, and it's then my job to deal with that threat.
 
drobs said:
You need to take your sister shooting and instruct her on gun safety / home defense.
Set it up this week - get it done.
Report back.

Then sign her up for a CCW course.
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Big maybe..I'd say yes, all about a HD gun but only if she wants to. Pushing her into a 'buy and learn a gun', with 2 kids at home, may not be the best course of action.
Make her home more secure is the first thing to do. I NEVER leave my doors unlocked..and I have more than a few HD guns in my home, have no kids around.
 
DustyGmt said:
She actually used to have some sort of censor thing, but I think it was constantly nuisance tripping from leaves, squirrels, etc... they have better options now, like mentioned in this thread. Apparently very affordable now
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I’ve use IR sensors that come with a number of different lenses. I use the “pet lens”, they are designed to not trigger with small animals so squirrels, rabbits and raccoons don’t trigger it but hogs will.

2F80B26D-AA1D-4EDD-B6EC-4DDF527326AB.jpeg


There are other methods too, light and a photo cell, laser, and a buzzer. When we lived in the city we had one of the above sensors trigger the single side of our door bell and the button the double. Would often startle people to answer the door before they had touched the door bell.
 
FFGColorado said:
Big maybe..I'd say yes, all about a HD gun but only if she wants to. Pushing her into a 'buy and learn a gun', with 2 kids at home, may not be the best course of action.
Make her home more secure is the first thing to do. I NEVER leave my doors unlocked..and I have more than a few HD guns in my home, have no kids around.
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Of course it's "only if she wants to." You cant force anyone to do anything.

What's this "buy and learn a gun" statement? My loved ones get given guns, ammo, and even a pistol safe. They don't need to buy anything. I have plenty.

Last year when the Pandemic kicked off, I called my sister and asked her if my Brother In-law owned a gun. She said that they did not. She never felt comfortable with a gun in the house. She went on that her thoughts and opinions has changed on that. With everyone being home (stay at home order) she is feeling defenseless and is now worried about being able to protect her family. I told her I would send her some guns. She lives 11 hours away.

My sister's family isn't poor. They could easily afford to buy guns and ammo. They just don't know where to begin. I sent her a Ruger PC 9 carbine, 3 Glock P80 kits for my niece and 2 nephews, + 600rds off ammo, and 11 Glock mags. Plus sent tons of emails on gun safety and home defense. I found a FFL in Michigan that would handle the transfer of the rifle plus give the family a course on gun safety - which he did. I also made this video on the basic operation of the PC9 carbine.

 
What's this "buy and learn a gun" statement? My loved ones get given guns, ammo, and even a pistol safe. They don't need to buy anything. I have plenty.
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Good for you..don't see how this applies to the OP's story tho.
 
Dog if possible, security system and curtains and better locks on the doors and windows.

Move to a new location and do the above.

A gun is not the answer in this case, if she cannot remember to lock her doors and with small children in the house could she remember to lock the gun in a finger print activated safe? Pepper spray and a stun gun and a panic button that once activated wakes the neighborhood up with lights and sirens and police notification. Something like that.

This is creepy enough I might consider the intruder dangerous yet.

"Do not live in glass houses," in other words, close the curtains and lock the doors. Seems like good advice.
 
It's a shame when someone is frightened in their own home. Most of her options have been posted. All I expect from my Rotti-Sheppard mix dog is to let me know someone or something is near my house. That's enough for me. I can tell by how she acts whether it's a car, person, deer or bear on the porch after 14 years with her. I believe most thieves don't like the attention a barking dog brings and also prefer to break into an unoccupied house. A home invader desperate for drug money is another story entirely. If your sister likes dogs, it may help her feel more safe in her home in addition to the other measures mentioned already.
 
Plenty of good advice given. I agree the place needs to be more secure. Camera's are an OK part of that, but they prevent nothing. Only record it.
For protection it starts with an alarm that even the neighbors can hear. Dogs can be nice, but they also require regular attention as in feeding, dealing with poop, etc. Pepper spray I think as a minimum defense. Firearm as a possibility. Don't under estimate a persons resolve to prevent harm to them, or in this case to her children. She has already talked about having one, so don't rule it out.
i Taught both my daughters the basics of a revolver. (simple operating) They know how to load and unload them. How to point them, and where the bullit comes out. They also know the rules of safety. Is that enough - no. But it is better than nothing and they are not going to practice so dealing with the reality of that fact it is better than nothing. I also bought them a revolver and a box of ammo. (and the advise to get further training)
 
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Guy appears to have been either:
>looking for quick and easy loot (purse on table, beer in fridge)
or
>was sending a message.

I find the potential phone pics of your nephew and the reference to glass houses disturbing. Is you sister vocal about political views? Does she post (or share other people's) controversial view points on social media? If so, she should either stop, or tighten up her security settings.

I'd say start by installing a dead bolt and a camera system for her. We have a ring camera/motion light and it's very good. Chimes my cell within a second of motion detection and mounts to any existing outdoor light box (120vac). Their doorbell cams are also good. Coworker has Simply Safe and loves it.

Take her shooting and if she shows a sober, serious and determined mind set, get her a simple to use handgun (DAO or revolver) and..... a gun vault (or equivalent) quick action lock box. Keep taking her shooting until she has some proficiency.

Make a point to drive by or stop in whenever you can... odd hours, no pattern.

Don't give up on her or let it drop. These are your people and as you already know, the police are not going to be able to prevent them being harmed.
 
I used to be somewhat lax about locking doors in the daytime as we live on a private lane, off a quiet side street in a nice small town in the lowest crime rate state.

Until I read about the Shasta Groene case.... look it up... very chilling.

The man who murdered this girls family with a hammer and kidnapped 8 year old Shasta and her brother... on the lamb for two months raping the girl and killing the brother..... told police that the night of the abduction he decided he would bail if the house door was locked. But the door was unlocked and the rest is sad and tragic history.

We lock the doors all the time now.

My kids think I'm paranoid... but they're alive and well so I'm OK with that.
 
mmb617 said:
But I think the subject at hand is more about protecting a home from invasion while you are present, and in that case a dog can be useful as an alarm more than anything else.
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Another point that others have implied is that a barking dog is no liability while a "mean dog" is. Guard dogs require training, lots of training, as do their owners to be safe around. Having small children and a lax attitude is a disastrous situation with dogs that show an eagerness to bite. We've had dogs of all sorts as far back as I can remember. They were always family members and they viewed us as their "pack" and we consciously worked to make certain they saw family as higher in the pack order. All of the dogs were raised and praised for alerting us to anyone approaching the house so we could benefit from their keener senses (and that they have nothing much better to do while we're busy). Only a couple were prone to protect the property from people and we worked with them to make as certain as possible that they wouldn't bite someone delivering mail/packages/reading meters/just jogging past. A furry alarm system is very handy if properly cared for and trained to the level you're willing to be trained and work with them.
 
I also pointed out to her, just for her information, while not ideally located, the firestation is about 80 yards away and at the entrance is a button that will sound an air raid siren that can be heard for miles and would alert the entire town. She asked me how I knew about the button and I told her I pushed it once as a kid.
 
tark said:
Wasp and hornet spray. Shoots a concentrated stream of nasty chemicals 25 feet. Takes no training to use. Aim for the head and I guarantee the last thing the intruder will be thinking about is harming you.
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No just no. It doesn't work and law suit. Buy pepper spray.
 
She had a pathetic lil kitchen knife so I left her with this:
IMG_20210322_123855.jpg
Razor sharp endura. She said she has been carrying it and it makes her feel somewhat better.

I will take her shooting, since she said that's what she want to try and since I have the means to do it why not. I think alot of you guys gave good advice, hardening the defenses in terms of making it difficult to enter with an emphasis on religiously locking doors behind you, etc... is a great way to start. But I think she would feel better if she had some kind of weapon, so I might buy her one of these. I think it makes a nasty defensive tool and should be confidence inspiring....
IMG_20210322_123904.jpg
just so she has some options God forbid this happens again.

It's getting really nice out and I'll try to make it a point to take her out with a .22lr handgun and rifle maybe sometime this week. I'll post back on how she does. Will be visiting a hardware store for some security improvements, etc...
 
Even though this is a firearm-focused discussion board, firearms should be the last consideration to home defense. In this case, a simple dead-bolt would have done more than hours of instruction at a range. Harden the outside and inside of the home first. Once she starts feeling more comfortable in her own home, then suggest adding to it with firearm safety and instruction.
 
DustyGmt said:
defensive tool
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It is, but it is down the list of them. Pepper spray ranks much higher, air tasers are higher. None of them require much skill to use and they have greater "stop" ranking than a folder. Also, that Spyderco Civilian requires a lot more technique to use properly than a straight blade and the Emerson Wave is designed to work when drawn from a pocket. As a spooky looking talisman it excels (I have the bright blades in serrated and plain), but a good spray and/or taser are far better at stopping an attacker/intruder.

BTW, I'm trained on knives (lots), sticks(lots), spray(some), and tasers and I'd recommend OC and Tasers over sticks and knives for most civilians. Most women don't carry folders so I recommend small fixed blades since they can be carried as neck knives.
 
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DustyGmt said:
This might be a lil long winded, bear with me.

My sister was in her home the night before last, in a nice town where violence and home invasions/intrusions are rare. It was just before midnight and she was up with her infant son and her 5 year old son, (both my nephews obviously). She lives in a small modular on a main st and she went into her bedroom for around 10 minutes while my 5yo nephew was sitting on the couch in the living room. My sister got her baby to sleep and came out and my nephew told her a family member had just come in the house, except he told her he was acting strange and sounded funny. My sister was confused and a lil creeped out at this point so she called this family member and they most certainly hadn't been in my sister's home.

She called the police and while she was waiting tried to get more complete information from my nephew about what he'd seen. He said that this person (who he confused with a family member),wearing a mask and looking "funny", walked in the front door (of a house pretty much dark and all shut down for the night), walked past him in the living room, past the bedroom door where my sister was putting her baby down, opened the fridge and stared into it for a minute, walked past my nephew and down the hall where a couple more bedrooms were, then back past my nephew on the couch where he then "found" my nephew, crouched and told him "don't live in a glass house". My sister thinks what was probably said was "don't throw stones if you live in a glass house" but "don't live in a glass house" is what my nephew was able to articulate. Then proceeded to take out his phone and play a game, although he might have been taking pictures or something else, could just be my nephew thinks phones are for playing games, idk.

So the police came, state police, took a look around, told my sister that she should invest in some security cameras and keep her house secured and locked up and to stay alert and call if......whatever, pretty much standard stuff that police would do.

My sister seemed surprised that they weren't interested in his footprints outside or the fingerprint on the doorknob so I had to explain some of the realities of police priorities and resources. I went down there last night to make sure all her windows were locked up nice and secure, hung around for a bit because I know she was wigging out a lil, single mom with children in the house, 100lbs soaking wet and pretty much defenseless. Not a fighter, more of a panicky, curl up into a ball kind of person that doesn't want to hurt a fly, and realistically, probably couldn't.

I brought the 12 ga down with me and was considering leaving it with her for "peace of mind" for both our sakes, but thought better of it. She has no experience with guns and with her mentality and lack of experience I'd be more worried about giving the intruder a weapon to use against her, she concurred with that. Not really sure what to do at this point, we talked on the porch for a while and she mentioned wanting to learn to shoot and maybe carry a gun. I have a .22lr that I'm fairly confident she could learn to shoot but it's going to take alot of time and with her, there are other considerations. Like will to live, fight or flight, etc... she isn't good under pressure, I hate to say it but I don't have alot of confidence in her in terms of ability to protect/defend.

Any advice? I've been down this road before with trying to arm my mom after a strange encounter. I left that experience being more scared of my mom with a gun than anything else. I haven't completely given up hope that my sister could competently and safely carry, but I almost have the more I think about it, but I believe certain people just don't have the aptitude to take reasonable care with a firearm, especially amplified when you throw kids into the mix, but you want your loved ones to be protected. I know there is no magic answer but I'm kind of drawing a blank here, any suggestions or alternatives you guys might know of.

I will be thinking about this for a while, I'm troubled by the fact that somebody entered my sister's home with my young nephews in there. I can't post up as a guard 24/7 and the police can only do so much. I also wanted to share this for folks who live in nice quiet towns who leave their doors unlocked and only carry in the "bad part of town". There are creeps everywhere and the town I grew up in and around is about as quaint and Norman Rockwell as it gets.
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A large dog. German Shepherd would be good because would still get along with the kids.
Security doors over all exterior doors. (See Lowes or Home Depot website for examples, but DO NOT buy the cheap group from Home Depot, the styles look just like the cheaper styles from Lowes but quality is poor, the Lowes ones are good.)
3M security film on all windows - if too expensive, at least any windows right next to doors.
Bolts on inside of garage door to prevent defeating the automatic opener (photos attached)
Motion-detector lights outside.
If possible some kind of alarm system whereby if somebody gets in anyway loud noises will occur and police will come.

Also, as delicate as your sister may be, don't underestimate the response of a mom who sees her children in danger. I would try to go forward with teaching her to shoot on that basis, talking about the need to protect the kids. Based on what you told us, you will have to work on mindset with her at least as much as skillset.

edited to add photos of the garage door bolts:
garage door lock, right side.JPG

garage door lock, left side.JPG
 
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Installation of new key-only deadbolt locks is essential. Even if new doors must also be installed.
My feeling is long-throw deadbolts should be on every exterior door, even if they have no glass.
Train family to be proficient on how/where to quickly obtain a key if they must quickly leave home.
 
webrx said:
my sister is anti inflicting injury, my father lives with her and is not, he also occasionally travels across multiple states to visit his other kids. I bought him this for Christmas

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N5TIY3J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Better than nothing, and only $30. Might be worth considering. Could carry in a purse if desired, or keep in a cabinet (out of kids reach) or in the car when travelling.

d
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Check local laws first, not legal everywhere.
 
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