Case fill advice for .38 Special

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JNeilWix

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Have a friend looking to load 158gr .38 special and I'm trying to help him find a good powder. I'd prefer a powder bulky enough to provide substantial case fill at nominal charge weights so as to preclude the possibility of a double charge.

What powders would be suitable?
 
Carl N. Brown said:
Unique would be pretty easy to get a double charge in a .38 Special case. I may be over cautious but I charge .38 Special cases, then eyeball a batch of charged cases with a maglight to be sure the powder levels are uniform, before seating the bullets.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd do that too on a single stage. :)

Actually my friend will be loading on a single stage, but I'm thinking the better case fill he can get the easier an over-charge will be to see....
 
The riority is:
Who has something in stock? - BUY IT
Powder Valley has some Win powders as of right this minute.
 
I'm not aware of any suitable powder for .38 special that won't fit at least a double charge in a case, if not a triple or quadruple charge. Get a good light, get a good powder measure, and develop good habits. Some are bulkier than others (trail boss is about as good as it gets) but even then you can still FIT a double or triple charge in a case. You'll notice it though. Some off the more dense flattened ball powders are tougher to spot.
 
1KPerDay said:
I'm not aware of any suitable powder for .38 special that won't fit at least a double charge in a case, if not a triple or quadruple charge. Get a good light, get a good powder measure, and develop good habits. Some are bulkier than others (trail boss is about as good as it gets) but even then you can still FIT a double or triple charge in a case. You'll notice it though. Some off the more dense flattened ball powders are tougher to spot.
Click to expand...

So the Trailboss VMD is .2172 and the max charge per Hodgdon is 4.2gr. That comes to .912cc. I think the total volume of a 38spl case is about 1.5cc. So a double charge of TB should exceed the volume of the case. (I think I'm doing the math right anyway... :) )

(I had done the math on TB before I posted, but I was hoping there were others that some folks knew about off the top of their heads without me having to look up VMD and load data for every powder....)

I'd like to think my practices are pretty good and I'm trying to pass that along to the friend I'm teaching, but I'm also trying to keep him out of trouble wherever I can....


PS - I find myself in whole-hearted agreement with your sig...
 
JNeilWix said:
Yeah, I'd do that too on a single stage. :)

Actually my friend will be loading on a single stage, but I'm thinking the better case fill he can get the easier an over-charge will be to see....
Click to expand...
While I agree at the same time you want your friend to develop good loading habits. A good habit is to inspect what you just tossed powder into. Good habits start at the very beginning of the learning curve. That said Unique has a volume metered density of 0.1092 verse a powder like Bullseye with a volume metered density of 0.1064. So with a 158 grain LRN bullet to get about 750 FPS you are looking at about 3.9 grains of Unique verse 3.4 grains of bullseye. Not sure how obvious 0.5 grain of powder will be. Trail Boss would be 4.1 grains and at about a Max load. I doubt you will safely get much above 750 FPS with Trail Boss.



Ron
 
Instead of looking for a powder that makes it impossible to double charge.
Learn good habits like starting with all the cases flipped upside down.
If the case is mouth up. You know it has powder.
If that isn't enough.
Do the first thing combined with putting the bullet in the case mouth after charging the case.
If that isn't enough. Seat the bullet immediately.

I usually seat the bullet immediately after dumping a charge.
 
Reloadron said:
While I agree at the same time you want your friend to develop good loading habits. A good habit is to inspect what you just tossed powder into. Good habits start at the very beginning of the learning curve. That said Unique has a volume metered density of 0.1092 verse a powder like Bullseye with a volume metered density of 0.1064. So with a 158 grain LRN bullet to get about 750 FPS you are looking at about 3.9 grains of Unique verse 3.4 grains of bullseye. Not sure how obvious 0.5 grain of powder will be. Trail Boss would be 4.1 grains and at about a Max load. I doubt you will safely get much above 750 FPS with Trail Boss.



Ron
Click to expand...
Bfh_auto said:
Instead of looking for a powder that makes it impossible to double charge.
Learn good habits like starting with all the cases flipped upside down.
If the case is mouth up. You know it has powder.
If that isn't enough.
Do the first thing combined with putting the bullet in the case mouth after charging the case.
If that isn't enough. Seat the bullet immediately.

I usually seat the bullet immediately after dumping a charge.
Click to expand...

I would absolutely NOT find a powder that is difficult or impossible to double charge for a beginner. As @Reloadron and @Bfh_auto wisely pointed out, checking for double charges should be part of the loading process, and powders such as Trail Boss, like so many things today, remove the "danger".

When I'm loading revolver cases on my turret press, I load 50 at a time and after the cases are charged I look at each one of them, checking for double charges. When I load reduced cast bullet loads in bottleneck rifle cases, I use a marked wooden dowel and check each one.

So again, teach caution from the beginning.

35W
 
JNeilWix said:
You sure? Hodgdon lists 3.7 as max for WST under a 158 LSWC...
Click to expand...

That what's I used for years. But data seams to change every time a new book comes out. I use 4.5 with a 357 brass. Both of these gave me a velocity around 700 fps. I shoot these out of my old 6" Colt custom Python. These feel like mouse farts out of this gun.

Start low and work up to be on the safe side.
 
I feel I need to address something. Many of you have pointed out that good habits should be developed. Agreed, and I have confirmation now that the friend I'm helping is reading this thread. Should he choose to weigh in, he would, I think, tell you that checking powder charges with a flashlight is a step we put into his procedure from from his first load. That said, I don't see why it hurts to have a powder bulky enough to make the difference easier to see when you are checking.

I have over the years seen a number of pictures posted on of revolvers with blown out cylinders. In almost every case someone will blame that on a low bulk fast powder like Titegroup or bullseye. Titegroup, Bullseye (and 244, though that one doesn't catch a lot of blame) have just about the lowest volume of any powder I've looked at for .38 SPL. (See below)

So it seems like there's some conventional wisdom floating around, and indeed, it seems obvious from a casual reflection on the topic, that higher bulk powders are a good idea for these cases. I'm open to education if I'm missing something here....

And by the way, this isn't only a recommendation I'm making to him. This will be the first time I've loaded for .38SPL (or any revolver cartridge) and these are choices I'm thinking through and making for myself as well. And even though I will check every charge, the bulkiness of the powder and case fill it provides seem to be something that would play into those decisions.

Trailboss
2.7 x .2172 = .59cc
4.2 x .2172 = .91cc

Silhouette
5.2 x .0796 = 0.41cc
5.6 x .0796 = 0.45cc


Titegroup
3.2 x .0848 = .27cc
3.8 x .0848 = .32cc


HS-6
5.7 x .0712 = .41cc
6.3 x .0712 = .45cc


CFE Pistol
4.8 x .0754 = .36cc
5.3 x .0754 = .40cc

Clays
2.8 x .1462 = 0.41cc
3.1 x .1462 = 0.45cc

Autocomp
4.8 x .0787 = .37cc
5.3 x .0787 = .42cc

WST
3.3 x ???
3.7 x ???

Power Pistol
4.8 x .0889 = .43cc
5.4 x .0889 = .48cc

Win 244
3.4 x .0789 = 0.27cc
3.8 x .0789 = 0.30cc

Bullseye
3.5 x .1064 = .37cc
 
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