.36 Penetration through Stacked Pine Boards

I dont know much about this stuff ...and am only stating my opinion as to what i think and i admit i might be conpletely wrong...but i feel that if two individuals get into an altercation and one is armed and uses it to shoot the other person once..no matter where hit...the person will most likely stand down and not risk getting shot again. Atleast thats what i believe because that is what i would do. If i got shot once i sure am not gonna keep attacking and risk getting shot again...especially if i were shot in the leg or arm..because my mind would thinking "ok..i might survive this wound...but the next shot may hit something that immediately kills me...". Again...not arguing what studies have been done...its just what i think and have always assumed is how the situation would USUALLY play out.

gtrgy888 said:

The caps were tightly pressed down to seal the cones and over ball Bore Butter was applied around the edges. The gun was left across the counter from a shower for 15 minutes as moisture exposure and shot a week later. Another possible exposure could have been the Bore Butter, since I applied it deeper around the edges, whereas it was originally applied higher, which could have left a gap. One of these weeks I’ll try out sealing with nail polish if I ever get up the nerve to paint my gun.

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What caps are you using...and stock nipples or aftermarket? I have walked (more like i misstepped and fell in) through a deep creek that got my gun completely soaked for atleast 5-10 seconds...the gun has aftermarket Slixshot nipples with remington 11 caps and 3 chambers of my load were black powder, cardboard disk, then bullet with grooves filled with lube..the other 3 chambers were powder, lube disk, cardboard disk and then ball...all chambers are shamfered to swage bullets/balls. I feared all my loads were ruined and fired it a bit later to clear whichever chambers may fire...ALL FIRED at full strength. No squibs or weaker shots. So my assumption taken from the experience was that a very good nipple to cap seal is good enough to keep moisture/water out...and the bullets being swaged made a perfect seal as well BUT if any water got past the ball/bullet then it must have been the lube in my lube grooves or lube disk that sealed off the chambers and protected my powder. My assumption is that if you had very tight nipple to cap seal then it wasnt moisture but possibly lube contamination...bore butter alao has mineral oil which will seap through the smallest cracks and contaminate powder over time especially since you said you put it lower than usual. I would skip the nail polish (if you do..they have clear polish hehe) if you have tight nipple to cap fitment as in my experience its pretty waterproof..but again i had slixshot ans remington caps for a very tight perfect fit. I live in subtropical south texas where its always hot in the high 90s too 112 degrees and in the 90% humidity range often ...which is like a steamy shower room..and i have no moisture exposure issues with my loads. But then again..details about the gun and load make a huge difference.

I read your post again and saw that you placed bore butter arouns the cap edges...that would be a very high cause of contamination as the mineral oil in the bore butter will seep into the seal between the cap and nipple...this will damage the primer in possibly get into the powder via the nipple channel. I never put any sealant around the nipples as there is no need so long as its a tight seal without cap pinching. Its one reason why i use slixshots or uncle mikes nipples as they give a perfect seal with remington 10s and 11s (will work with cci 11s but i strictly use remington only). If i use stock pietta nipples then i only use remington 10s.

gtrgy888 said:

The first hit right above a knot (apparently not high enough), so that could have done it. But the 2nd shot was through flat white pine, so power was likely compromised. Neither board was even cracked! It was disappointing. Nothing worse than propping the boards, drawing a careful bead, shooting, and hearing the ball harmlessly tumbling on the ground back towards my feet.

Watching the fresh loaded conical throwing the whole stack after plowing through and breaking pieces off was downright therapeutic by comparison.

Distance was about 7 paces. As far away as I could comfortably shoot a 4”x6”x6” stack without worrying about deflection.

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If you want to avoid knotholes in your boards see if you can find what used to be called "Clear Pine" boards. I believe they are cut from the trunk of the tree where there are no branches so no knots in the wood. It sounds like you are just stacking a bunch of boards on top of each other and shooting the stack. That will change how well your bullets penetrate and will skew your results. Here is a picture (I hope) of what a wood baffle box looks like. This will let you come closer to reproducing the results that the military used to get in testing rounds to see if they were "dangerous".

gtrgy888 said:

From what I’ve seen compared with other baffle tests of .36, the stack makes little difference. 3-4 boards with roundball, 5-7 boards with conical is a good rule of thumb. Triple 7 or Swiss expands that range but beats the hell out of the gun unless loaded down.

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My Pietta .44 cal NMA (and ROA) haven’t received the memo. They’ve been fed a steady diet of 3F Olde Eynsford and Triple 7 and mostly my bullets. My NMA is more accurate with 30 grns (weighs 33 with Olde E) and it’s just as solid as it was in 2013 when I got it.

During the Civil War the Hazard’s paper cartridges uses 4F powder equivalent in strength to Swiss/Olde E/T7 and these weren’t light loads (36 grns pushing a 211 grn conical in .44 cal).

In Europe Swiss 4F is used in revolvers. I doubt they’d be doing so if it just beat the hell out of all of their hard to get guns.



I’m at a loss for how more energetic powders beat the hell out of guns unless we’re talking brass framed guns. Otherwise I’m going to have to disagree.

*EDIT*

Since we’re discussing the .36 cal I dug up Hazard’s .36 cal paper cartridges. They used 21 grns of powder and a 141 grn bullet. Pretty stout.

I love these discussion...so much great info. Being serious, I am just getting back into the sport, and now I want to try a bunch of different powders, too.

That's funny, (well not actually) my one and only chain fire was with 777, which threw not only my loading lever catch into the forest, but also my front sight along with it. !!!

TheOutlawKid said:

I read your post again and saw that you placed bore butter arouns the cap edges...that would be a very high cause of contamination as the mineral oil in the bore butter will seep into the seal between the cap and nipple...this will damage the primer in possibly get into the powder via the nipple channel. I never put any sealant around the nipples as there is no need so long as its a tight seal without cap pinching. Its one reason why i use slixshots or uncle mikes nipples as they give a perfect seal with remington 10s and 11s (will work with cci 11s but i strictly use remington only). If i use stock pietta nipples then i only use remington 10s.

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It's been my experience that when moisture is blamed for loads going soft, or mis-fires, it's actually some kind of oil or solvent contamination. Kind of like the old saying: "90% of carburation problems are electrical", meaning that often when one is sure the carb is acting up, it's actually the electrical system. Did that make sense?

gtrgy888 said:

An open top and a NMA are an apple and an orange. Triple 7 has a habit of spitting cap fragments directly into the action and throwing my loading lever catch and pin into the desert, never to be seen again. That’s never a problem with 4f black powder, loaded exactly as you cited. Though I’m sure VTI would appreciate the business, I opt to load down by 5 grains so I can shoot more than 3 shots without a jam or missing part.

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There are plenty of people here who have Colts that don’t have that issue. As a matter of fact you are the only one I’ve ever read or been around to have it. Seems it’s your gun if you ask me.

*EDIT*

And then the next fellow has a similar occurrence... Strange for sure, and still not common.

rodwha said:

There are plenty of people here who have Colts that don’t have that issue. As a matter of fact you are the only one I’ve ever read or been around to have it. Seems it’s your gun if you ask me.

*EDIT*

And then the next fellow has a similar occurrence... Strange for sure, and still not common.

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I don’t recall exactly when I started using Swiss but it’s been a while. Whenever it became available from Grafs I tried it and I have used it ever since.
None of these have ever seen anything but full power loads. But under bullets most often. No problems thus far. I have lost latches before too but it didn’t have anything to do with the powder charges. The retaining pin will sometimes not be a tight fit and work it’s way loose. I have one which is loose right now and I intend to bore the hole larger and tap it for a set screw. It won’t fall out after that...

woodnbow said:

I don’t recall exactly when I started using Swiss but it’s been a while. Whenever it became available from Grafs I tried it and I have used it ever since. View attachment 989555
None of these have ever seen anything but full power loads. But under bullets most often. No problems thus far. I have lost latches before too but it didn’t have anything to do with the powder charges. The retaining pin will sometimes not be a tight fit and work it’s way loose. I have one which is loose right now and I intend to bore the hole larger and tap it for a set screw. It won’t fall out after that...

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I really really really like that middle gun. Its wear left the gun that nice silvery type patina color with a hint of brown. Did you get it that way or did it happen over time? Very nice patina. Also looks like it has a navy grip frame but i could be wrong. What are your full loads and ball or conical?

It’s purty huh? Lee Shaver cut this one down to Sheriffs length. And it’s a Cimarron Original finish (made by Uberti...) typically I load 30 grains of 3f behind bullet or ball and the bullets weigh from 190 to 255 grains...

gtrgy888 said:

Dropping loading levers on Colts with heavy powder charges is a constant complaint...

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On Colt Walkers, sure, but I haven't had the problem with any others and haven't heard enough others complain to notice.
Is this really a problem folks are having with their Colts?
If it was, I don't think there would be as many die hard Colt fans out there.

My 1860 shed more than a couple of loading lever latch studs when it had a longer barrel on it, but settled down after I shortened the barrel. I think the angle of the dove-tail has a lot to do with it. If it's wrong, replacing the stud does not always seem to help, and once one pops off, then the dovetail is messed up, distorted and does not hold as well. I suspect some guns have that perfect fit, of the latch stud in the dove tail, and some do not. ? I'm just guessing.

Besides finally getting a nice perfect fit with the one that is on it now, after cutting the barrel down I was able to start anew, I also silver-soldered it, and the solder took well. I don't expect it to ever come out again.

Here's the cva asm. I last out together, has a flaw in one chamber so have it a worn look. Could have used cold blue but did 3 rounds of dust blue and rubbed some gluing back off.

No cap jams the first 6 cylinders so far.