45-70 loads (not traditional load info)

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Sparkee

Sparkee

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Okay so here's my dilemma, I have a Marlin model 1895 fairly new (manufactured underneath Remington) Hornady lever evolution ammunition will not properly cycle due to its FTX tip being too long for case overall length. What I want to do is to pull the FTX's out use Hornady cases along with their powder in a different bullet because powder is completely unavailable in the upper Midwest and I'm wondering if anybody has ever done anything like this?
this is the info and knowledge that I currently have and I'm looking for some more info and nothing sarcastic.
I want to pull the 325 grain FTX bullets out and use combined technology ballistic silver tip 300 grain round nose bullets (in short).
Here is what I do know, bearing surface makes a difference, Case capacity makes a difference, powder type makes a difference. I'm not looking for some high-end load I'm looking for something to function properly because a wise man once told me make the ammo fit the gun don't make the gun fit the ammo. these ballistic silver tips have a lesser bearing surface which will allow for a little more case volume, hornadys powder charges 52 grains of whatever proprietary powder charge they're using.
Has anybody done this, I know what possible risks are if I do this, just wondering if anybody else has done this or can shed a little more expertise on this.
 

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I did call Hornady I do know they're about .060 shorter than a factory case and it still does not function properly. I want to use the Hornady cases because they're shorter which is fine it'll keep my case volume a little bit lower which should work fine with what I want to do. But I still don't function properly.
 
I would look a little deeper as to why they won't function properly in your gun.
That Hornady Leverevolution round was made pretty much made exclusively for the lever actions.
Although the case is shorter, I believe the COAL is within the SAAMI limits...
I certainly do not claim to be an expert by any means, but I am interested as to why they don't function for you.
 
I would also be inclined to say that, if after the new bullet is seated, and the case capacity is the same as the factory ammo, it SHOULD be feasible to achieve what you are attempting.
 
The biggest difference in the case capacity is where the cannalure is located on the silver tip bullets which gives a little more "air gap" in the case.
I didn't shorten the case, hornady does it to "work" work Marlin lever actions.
I did measure COAL and between the 3 different lots of lever evolution they all measure longer than SAAMI spec.
 
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Soonerpesek said:
I would look a little deeper as to why they won't function properly in your gun.
That Hornady Leverevolution round was made pretty much made exclusively for the lever actions.
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I’d go with this option first. Would also be good to use a Hornady case length gauge to measure your rifle to see what’s going on in there.
 
For hunting I used the Hornady Ammo Exclusively in my 1895G. Its an early 2K Marlin Model with the ported Barrel. Cycles with no issues. Just adding information to what you already have. Would be willing to measure the ammo that I have for you to see if the length changed. Its been more than a few years since I purchased any. I agree with Frogo that changing the charges or bullets with the unknown can create problems. If you lived close by I would certainly issue an invite and share some powder.
 
Sparkee said:
The biggest difference in the case capacity is where the cannalure is located on the silver tip bullets which gives a little more "air gap" in the case.
I didn't shorten the case, hornady does it to "work" work Marlin lever actions.
I did measure COAL and between the 3 different lots of lever evolution they all measure about .070 longer than SAAMI spec.
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I'm not familiar with the bullets you have in the photo... can you help us out? Is the dark one the Hornady?

You could also pull the bullets and shorten the cases .070" or, conversely, partially knock the bullets out of the crimp and seat them a wee bit deeper, then re-crimp them.

I feel your pain... I have a Savage 99 with a rotary magazine. It will continually jam if I try to load or cycle rounds right at max OAL for .308.
 
The only way it would be remotely safe is by using a lighter weight bullet with the same charge. I would watch Powder Valley for the propellant you want and buy whenever a choice shows up.
 
Here are some specs I have from the hornady book. It's hard to tell in the pictures but you can see with the length that Hornady has manufactured these factory rounds to when the attempt to cycle the tip catches just below the barrel entry and then I have to jiggle the lever to hopefully pop it up to put it in the battery. But with the round nose cases they'll cycle flawlessly with no issue and I think it's because of the great difference in OAL.
 

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FROGO, I did try removing just the flex tip piece and it still catches cuz it's such a sharp angle so I made a jig and I rounded a couple of them to kind of make like an XTP which only reduces bullet weight by about five grains I just don't like modifying the bullet that much. The silver tips are 25 grains lighter than the Hornady FTX's. And that was my thought being lighter with the same charge and the bearing surface of the bullet being less would work. One of my concerns is my available case capacity increases because the cannalure is in a different location and I don't want to have a powder burn on both ends to have a high pressure rate.
Charlie, The black ones are the silver tip manufactured by nosler, the other ones are some of the Hornady FTX's I have modified slightly and don't like doing it.
 
It has always been standard wisdom that lacking a load of specific bullet weight use the next heaviest weight data. Also more internal volume in the case will lower the pressure.
Well a silver lining is somebody will surely buy your flextip bullets from you.
 
And that's exactly my thought, The biggest concern and unknown variable is the type of powder Hornady is using since it's their own proprietary blend and they won't disclose it.
I even thought about taking 3 grains of powder out to be on the safe side. But also with standard wisdom, lighter bullets get more powder heavy bullets get less powder.
 
Sparkee said:
FROGO, I did try removing just the flex tip piece and it still catches cuz it's such a sharp angle so I made a jig and I rounded a couple of them to kind of make like an XTP which only reduces bullet weight by about five grains I just don't like modifying the bullet that much. The silver tips are 25 grains lighter than the Hornady FTX's. And that was my thought being lighter with the same charge and the bearing surface of the bullet being less would work. One of my concerns is my available case capacity increases because the cannalure is in a different location and I don't want to have a powder burn on both ends to have a high pressure rate.
Charlie, The black ones are the silver tip manufactured by nosler, the other ones are some of the Hornady FTX's I have modified slightly and don't like doing it.
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It sure does sound like your rifle is defective. It wouldn't be the first to have a have a bad feed system from the factory. I've seen two in person and read about a handful more. Instead of breaking good ammo, I suggest fixing the broke rifle.
 
Last time I talked to Ruger, they did buy the Marlin name and manufacturing equipment, but I don't know if they're going to honor any of previous warranty info and they're not going to start making guns until 4th quarter this year.
 
I just went to the basement and picked out one from the box. It was 2.5845 which is shorter than yours. Others in the box about the same. My ammo is at least six or so years old. It was given to me by a policeman who I shared some homemade beer with and some .308 ammo that I had. His daughter and mine were friends at school. Very nice guy. I wonder if they make them longer these days.
 
I'll have to call hornady tomorrow with the lot #s. My lever evolution ammo is about the same age. So maybe they're incorrectly manufactured. Thank you for that measurement.
 
I would not do that.

My REP .45-70 SBL eats the Hornady factory Lever stuff like candy. Though I mostly shoot HMS Cowboy, HMS Bear and a variety of my own home loads from subsonic to near Magnum level.
 
FWIW, Hodgdon sells and advertises their Leverevolution powder as “the same powder as used in Leverevolution ammunition” so I expect that if you get Leverevolution load data, you can load according to that.
 
ahutch71 said:
FWIW, Hodgdon sells and advertises their Leverevolution powder as “the same powder as used in Leverevolution ammunition” so I expect that if you get Leverevolution load data, you can load according to that.
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Just did some very quick research after posting, and found that Hodgdon does NOT include 45-70 load data in their latest manual for Leverevolution powder. 45-70 usually uses faster powder than bottlenecks, so I expect that the powder in those cartridges is faster than LE.
 
ahutch71 said:
Just did some very quick research after posting, and found that Hodgdon does NOT include 45-70 load data in their latest manual for Leverevolution powder. 45-70 usually uses faster powder than bottlenecks, so I expect that the powder in those cartridges is faster than LE.
Click to expand...
Says on their site, "This fabulous propellant meters flawlessly and makes lever action cartridges like the 30-30 Winchester yield velocities in excess of 100 fps over any published handloads, with even greater gains over factory ammunition. Other cartridges include the 35 Remington, 308 Marlin Express, 338 Marlin Express and the 25-35 Winchester. The list of cartridges and bullets is limited with this highly specialized powder, but where it works, it really works!"

They may not load .45-70 with LeveRevolution powder anymore.
 
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