Mountain lion/woods gun

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I live in Nevada and there’s a picture in a local gun shop of a big cat just as he’s bailing out of a tree. They were on a predatory hunt for this cat, and you can see a bloody spot on his chest. They’d shot him with a .357, and yet he came out of the tree, killed one dog and crippled two others then made it downslope into another canyon before he dropped.

I’ve seen them a number of times out in the desert. I carry either a 4 inch .357 loaded hot or a 10 mm with hot loads. You guys carrying 9mm are kidding yourselves.
 
MatrixReality said:
If I recall, there have been more humans mauled and killed by cougars than bears over time.
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Numbers vary depending on the source, but bear attacks appear to outnumber cougar attacks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America
A total of 125 attacks, 27 of which are fatal,[1] have been documented in North America in the past 100 years. Fatal cougar attacks are extremely rare and occur much less frequently than fatal snake bites, fatal lightning strikes, or fatal bee stings.


https://petpedia.co/bear-attack-statistics/
What Are the Top 10 Intriguing Bear Attack Statistics
  • There were 664 bear attacks on people globally between 2000–2015.
  • There are 40 bear attacks around the world every year.
  • There were 23 fatal black bear attacks in the US between 2000–2016.
  • There were 22 human-bear incidents in the US Yosemite National Park in 2019.
  • There haven’t been any fatal bear attacks in Glacier National Park since 1998.
  • There were only 4 fatal bear attacks in Ontario, Canada, in the last 100 years.
  • There weren’t any wolf attacks on people in the US since 1900.
  • On average, lions kill 250 people per year in Africa.
  • Mosquitoes kill 750,000 people every year.
  • There weren’t any wolf attacks on people in the US since 1900.
 
RETG said:
These threads are very common, must be a lot of people heading out of the cities. :rofl:

In regard to bears in NM, southern UT, a .40 might be an overkill, they are small. Even in the Lasal Mountains SE of Moab, they are more frightened of you than you will be of them. After l living in Moab for over six years, and hiking in the Lasals the bears were never a problem; unless you left the food out at night, and then it would disappear at night. And the bears in the mountains of western CO and Northern NM are small (at least compared to the biggies up here in Idaho, WY. MT).

In fact, camping years ago outside of Colorado Springs at the WYE campground, I had two walk into my camp and simply setting off the seven stage alarm on a Hummer got them running down the trail looking like they were not going to stop till Montana. Noise works. And after coming head to head with grizzlies, spray works great!

As for mountain lions, a .22 would suffice if you see it first. I have run across them a few times, and three rounds in the ground in front will get them running in the other direction. Problem with a ML is if you don't see them until they are on you, at which point the gun might be a club. Best to stay Bear/ML aware.

As for where to see a ML, sometimes it is as simple as viewing a trail cam in your backyard...View attachment 990600

And another thing I didn't think of till last week is there are other dangers out there in the woods. There are bigger animals just as dangerous if startled.

I walk my dogs every AM around 3-4AM and last week coming around a trail I walk on quite often, out of the trees to the right came a very large moose and she did not look happy. My 150 male Malamute got it running, but that was questionable for a few seconds. I should have thought of this many years ago. There are not the animal to attack, kill and eat you, but a 1000 pound cow peed off coming at you will do you in just as fast as a ML. And if it is a 1400 lb male...say goodbye.
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moab is one place I plan on visiting!
 
Must See: Hiker Has Close Encounter With Mountain Lion - Bing video

Last Fall

I'm thinking a big Mt Lion is 180ish lbs. It shouldn't take a big gun, most anything you'd carry for personal defense. Not any Mt lions around here, but I've visited many parts of the country where they are. I know these encounters are rare, but I'd still rather be prepared.

I do see a LOT of black bear in the areas where I normally hunt/hike/camp. Never felt threatened, but once again I'd rather be prepared and I do carry a pistol anytime it is possible. Not possible everywhere.

In areas where I know bear are present I carry my G29 loaded with hot 200 gr hardcast bullets. Everywhere else either a 9mm or 45 depending on my mood. I'd think any of those would stop a cat. IF you hit it. Those things are small, and fast.
 
Smokepole14 said:
I see plenty of threads on the best bear/woods gun. Probably because if it’ll kill a bear it’ll kill anything, but that could lead to carrying something that’s overkill. I plan on this year taking a trip and doing some hiking in New Mexico/Utah territory where there’s big cats lurking. What’s y’all’s go to rig for this? Let’s put a different spin on the bear/woods gun topic.
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Hi, I’m from Los Angeles. We’ve got mountain lions and bears in town. But the Sheriff won’t sign off on our CCWs, even if we enclose snapshots of all the LA County Beware of Mountain Lions signs in our own neighborhood.

Anyway:

Mountain Lions aren’t like bears. There is not a long staredown before they start f’ing with you.

Mountain lions POUNCE, and you don’t see them beforehand.

They go for your head and neck first, which leaves your hands free to draw your gun. But a large caliber semi auto is maybe not the best thing to be messing around with at that point.

I’d feel best with a snub. And I’d keep in mind that the ticks and the rattlesnakes are way more likely to ruin your life than the cougars.
 
jmr40 said:
Must See: Hiker Has Close Encounter With Mountain Lion - Bing video

Last Fall

I'm thinking a big Mt Lion is 180ish lbs. It shouldn't take a big gun, most anything you'd carry for personal defense. Not any Mt lions around here, but I've visited many parts of the country where they are. I know these encounters are rare, but I'd still rather be prepared.

I do see a LOT of black bear in the areas where I normally hunt/hike/camp. Never felt threatened, but once again I'd rather be prepared and I do carry a pistol anytime it is possible. Not possible everywhere.

In areas where I know bear are present I carry my G29 loaded with hot 200 gr hardcast bullets. Everywhere else either a 9mm or 45 depending on my mood. I'd think any of those would stop a cat. IF you hit it. Those things are small, and fast.
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Will a teeny-weeny Euro-pellet, for example, eventually kill a 180 lbs mountain lion? Absolutely. And its advocate will be proven, posthumously, correct.

If one is concerned about a mountain lion attack, it is not its death that should primarily guide the shooter, rather its rapid and devastating incapacitation. The mountain lion with five 9mm bullets in its chest will die. But it may very well take you with it. The goal of one's defensive weapon in such instance must be to immobilize and incapacitate the predator as rapidly as possible. Again, "just enough dead" is not good enough. "Incapable of doing harm" or "Really Effing Dead" must be the standards of performance sought.
 
They are present in MI now. If I'm heading North over the bridge I don't see why a 1911 in 45 ACP wouldn't be with me. I'd love to say 45 colt in an SAA but an auto or DA is easier if your also trying to hold off an attack with the other hand.
 
A friend of mine encountered a pair of younger ones archery elk hunting. He saw the first one staring at him at 20 yards out. They looked at each other for a second and then it took a couple steps toward him. He drew his bow and drilled it, it scampers off. As he's catching his breath the brush rustles and out pops another one looking at him. He didn't waste time looking back at this one. He nocked an arrow and drilled that one too. Game Department let him keep both of them. They said they were young siblings probably just cut loose from Mom and still learning the ropes. He might have been the first human they had ever encountered, who knows.

Myself, I just carry the same 9mm as I everyday carry. Same 124 grain JHP's too. I've always assumed that, unlike my friend, any cougar I encounter would just blindside me and surviving the first few seconds of the physical fight would be more important than the caliber of the gun I hopefully can bring to bear.
 
pairof44sp said:
Hi, I’m from Los Angeles. We’ve got mountain lions and bears in town. But the Sheriff won’t sign off on our CCWs, even if we enclose snapshots of all the LA County Beware of Mountain Lions signs in our own neighborhood.

Anyway:

Mountain Lions aren’t like bears. There is not a long staredown before they start f’ing with you.

Mountain lions POUNCE, and you don’t see them beforehand.

They go for your head and neck first, which leaves your hands free to draw your gun. But a large caliber semi auto is maybe not the best thing to be messing around with at that point.

I’d feel best with a snub. And I’d keep in mind that the ticks and the rattlesnakes are way more likely to ruin your life than the cougars.
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I'm in O.C., just an hour or so south of you. I actually live across the street from a wilderness area where mountain lion attacks are becoming somewhat common. The most recent was just a few months ago, where a little kid got nabbed in front of his family. The grown-ups threw rocks and such, and the kid apparently will be fine, other than some bragging scars.

What strikes me about most of these attacks is that they weren't ambushes. I believe, at this point, that when mountain lions attack people, the majority of the time they are doing it out of either desperation or lunacy - and the majority of the time, those attacks are halted by people yelling and throwing things. So I suspect that any firearm capable of making a loud noise would suffice, most of the time.

I carry my usual .357 when I am in lion country.
 
You absolutely don't need a firearm for hiking (or mountain-biking) in cougar country. You just need a buddy ... preferably a buddy who's a lot slower than you are.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/...north-bend-had-no-abnormalities/281-574464297
On a serious note, in the past couple of years, we've seen at least one horse and few other species of livestock (usually goats) taken by cougar... in my neighborhood.

I do most of my hiking, skiing, hunting and fishing either in the Cascades, or east or north of them. I've normally caught only glimpses of (what I thought were) the big cats, although friends have shown me many images caught on trail cams. My daughter (when she was only eight years old) and I had an interesting cougar encounter on a trail near Darrington, WA when the cat appeared on the trail only about 25 yards in front of us, gazed at us for what seemed like an hour, and then casually walked away. Almost twenty years later, and she's finally realized how rare that sort of encounter is.

But, I digress. I'm almost always packing a double-stack 9mm or single-stack .45 and feel comfortable with that. It's not the caliber, type or model -- it's whether you'd actually get the chance to employ the gun.
 
I walk the dog at night, usually with a 22lr, 9mm or 38 Super handgun, primarily to scare off coyotes or javelinas. I was walking the dog using a flashlight intermittently to make sure we didn’t step on a rattler. I illuminated the mountain lion as we came around a corner, and it took off like a rocket. I guess a human, dog, flashlight and gun triggered a flight response. It is the only one I’ve seen here in 10 years, even though they aren’t uncommon in this area. They will attack horses, dogs, coyotes, javelinas, rabbits, cats, etc., but not humans, at least around here.
 
This one was a juvenile. I usually carry a snubbie with the first two rounds in the chamber of snake shot. Mostly for snakes, but figure if a cat wants my tender rump for dinner, if I get off a shot I’d rather have something that doesn’t have to be a well placed shot that would either scare kitty, or at least pepper his face pretty good.

 
Something would be better than nothing, but for most (myself included) I'd say training at hitting moving targets and shooting under stress would be more important when it comes to a defensive shot against a moving or charging bear or cougar. Doesn't matter what type or how many rounds if you can't calm down enough to make contact.
 
The odds of you seeing a threatening cougar in the wild are about slim and none. If you do, chances are it'll be a surprise from behind and you won't have time to even pee your pants let alone get off an accurate killing shot. The Washington State Dept of Fish and Game tells people to start singing the University of Washington fight song as it's been proven that no cougar will touch you (that's an inside joke for college football fans in Washington)
 
Bush Pilot said:
The Washington State Dept of Fish and Game tells people to start singing the University of Washington fight song as it's been proven that no cougar will touch you (that's an inside joke for college football fans in Washington)
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I thought it was the Wazzu fight song... after all, they are the Cougars.
 
I would carry controlled-expansion .357 Magnum, in any decent .357 revolver. Same as in my home neighborhood, a small city surrounded by a sprawling mega-city-metroplex. Auto-loaders are good, too, but I no longer trust my aging, gimpy right hand to be a reliably stable platform to firmly support an autoloader’s functioning, so, that means a .357 revolver, worn in the 0200-0330 area, where I have carried my primary duty and personal-time carry guns, since 1984.

It is not that I am a revolving Luddite; my first handgun was a 1911, at age 21, in late 1982 or early 1983, and I had an HK P7 pistol by 1985. If I am fighting for my life, all-tangled-up with a human or feline opponent, a revolver is my better go-to weapon, at that moment in time. A nice autoloader might be a good companion gun, a “tactical reload,” for dealing unsocial humans.

I would be just as comfortable toting one of my .45 Colt revolvers.

There are few cougars/pumas/mountain lions in my corner of Texas, but I do visit and/or pass through their habitat, occasionally. I have had conversations with a very outdoorsman-oriented friend who used to live, for a very long time, in Texas and in Arizona, among the big kitties. I claim no personal hand-to-paw combat expertise.

In case it has not become clear, by this point, I carry the same thing, for the big kitties, as I carry for human opponents.
 
Mountain lions regularly kill spooky animals with senses far more sensitive than mine. If one wants to kill me I'm probably going to be ambushed before I ever know it's there. If I do see one, it probably isn't a threat to me. Animals really don't factor into my wilderness self defense plans unless I was dressing out game with large bears around.
 
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