DASA Cocked and Locked

pairof44sp · Apr 9, 2021

When it comes to pistol hammers, I follow the ways of the ancestors. In ancient times, the ancestors insisted on having a hammer that their thumb could ride on as the pistol went in or out of the holster. That way, they didn’t get all nervous about shooting themselves in the “appendidge.”

But here’s my question. I drill draw-to-double-shot-to-back to holster, at various distances. If I do it starting double action, the groups are bad. If I just use the gun cocked with safety on like it was a Colt 45, then the groups come out good.

Is there any reason not to just carry a DASA cocked as if it were a single action? I’m talking about Berettas with a good positive click on the safeties.

.455_Hunter · Apr 9, 2021

Most Berettas, like the 92, decock when the safety is applied. However, many of the CZ 75/85 guns allow for cocked and locked SA utilization.

pairof44sp · Apr 9, 2021

.455_Hunter said:
Most Berettas, like the 92, decock when the safety is applied. However, many of the CZ 75/85 guns allow for cocked and locked SA utilization.

any reason not to put the 92 on safe and then recock the hammer full cock and reholster?

UncleEd · Apr 9, 2021

Pairof44sp,

Specifically, what model of Beretta are you
using?

JR24 · Apr 9, 2021

I guess it depends on if the model is drop safe in that configuration, which I'm thinking it probably is. Other than practicing enough to verify you'll always work the safety on your draw I don't see any issue, assuming it is drop safe.

I somewhat considered going cocked and locked with my HK45c since the safety is easy use and in my preferred 1911ish location.

I decided, rather, to keep working on learning that first shot and transition instead, specifically the long DA pull. It's getting there after a lot of daily dry fire practice.

I guess I decided that if I want to go cocked and locked, I have 1911s and the EDC X9 for that.

5-SHOTS · Apr 9, 2021

any reason not to put the 92 on safe and then recock the hammer full cock and reholster?

You cannot carry a Beretta 92 family with the slide decocker, cocked and locked: it is not mechanically possible.
There are some Beretta 92 family like the Beretta Stock that have a thumb frame safety you can carry cocked and locked.

JR24 · Apr 9, 2021

Is this Beretta one of them new 92X models the ... uh, what's the model with the 1911ish safety location?

Jim Watson · Apr 9, 2021

The "92" family includes so many different guns, it is hard to say what YOU can do.
You got pictures?

JTQ · Apr 9, 2021

pairof44sp said:
any reason not to put the 92 on safe and then recock the hammer full cock and reholster?

You can do whatever you want, but nobody is going to teach that technique at any place where they teach how to shoot and carry guns.

The proper way to carry a Beretta with a decocker safety is with the hammer down and the safety off.

.455_Hunter · Apr 9, 2021

"Most" 92 Berettas do not allow the hammer to remain a full cock when the safety is applied. You can try to cock it, but it just drops back to the resting position.

JTQ · Apr 9, 2021

pairof44sp said:
Is there any reason not to just carry a DASA cocked as if it were a single action? I’m talking about Berettas with a good positive click on the safeties.

How do you carry your single action guns?

Single action revolvers - do you carry them with the hammer cocked?

Single action autos - do you carry them with the hammer cocked and the safety off?

This is how you propose using your Beretta.

Nobody is going to teach either of these techniques. This is not a recommended carry method.

Here is Ernest Langdon explaining the 92FS - at about the 2:45 mark he describes how to carry the 92FS

pairof44sp · Apr 9, 2021

JTQ said:
How do you carry your single action guns?

Single action revolvers - do you carry them with the hammer cocked?

Single action autos - do you carry them with the hammer cocked and the safety off?

This is how you propose using your Beretta.

Nobody is going to teach either of these techniques. This is not a recommended carry method.

Here is Ernest Langdon explaining the 92FS - at about the 2:45 mark he describes how to carry the 92FS

Ok, I’m confused.

I’m talking about carrying DASA with safety-on and hammer back.

Not talking about a DASA that has only a decocker and no safety (didn’t even know there was such a thing).

pairof44sp · Apr 9, 2021

.455_Hunter said:
"Most" 92 Berettas do not allow the hammer to remain a full cock when the safety is applied. You can try to cock it, but it just drops back to the resting position.

Oh ok I mistyped. I meant to write 80-series.

FL-NC · Apr 9, 2021

Inefficient and dangerous. Learn to manage the DA trigger at presentation (draw) or switch to a SA like a 1911 type cocked and locked, or something like a Glock or M&P. A third option would be a DA like some of the HK or Taurus pistols that allow a cocked and locked carry configuration, which makes me wonder why get a transitional DA in the first place if that isd how it is to be carried.

entropy · Apr 9, 2021

pairof44sp said:
When it comes to pistol hammers, I follow the ways of the ancestors. In ancient times, the ancestors insisted on having a hammer that their thumb could ride on as the pistol went in or out of the holster. That way, they didn’t get all nervous about shooting themselves in the “appendidge.”

But here’s my question. I drill draw-to-double-shot-to-back to holster, at various distances. If I do it starting double action, the groups are bad. If I just use the gun cocked with safety on like it was a Colt 45, then the groups come out good.

Is there any reason not to just carry a DASA cocked as if it were a single action? I’m talking about Berettas with a good positive click on the safeties.

The answer to your dilemma is the Taurus PT-99.

pairof44sp · Apr 9, 2021

entropy said:
The answer to your dilemma is the Taurus PT-99.

If Taurus turns out to be the answer, well, so be it!

JTQ · Apr 9, 2021

pairof44sp said:
any reason not to put the 92 on safe and then recock the hammer full cock and reholster?

pairof44sp said:
Oh ok I mistyped. I meant to write 80-series.

pairof44sp said:
Ok, I’m confused.

Hey, you're not the only one.

JTQ · Apr 9, 2021

OK, so we're talking about a Beretta Series 80 and not a 92FS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Cheetah

JTQ · Apr 9, 2021

A gun like a CZ75B, a DA/SA pistol with a manual safety - without a decocker, is often carried in single action mode with the hammer cocked and the manual safety engaged.

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-b-9mm-black-16-rd-mag/

JTQ · Apr 9, 2021

pairof44sp said:
Not talking about a DASA that has only a decocker and no safety (didn’t even know there was such a thing).

SIG traditional P-Series guns, the P220, P225, P226, P228, P229 all have a decocker and no safety. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_P220

The Beretta 92G has a decocker only and no manual safety https://www.beretta.com/en/92-g/

Unlike the CZ75 B, I mentioned above, the CZ75 BD has a decocker with no safety https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-bd-9mm-black-16-rd-mags/

JTQ · Apr 9, 2021

The Beretta 92FS and M9 have a safety/decocker. When you engage the safety/decocker, the hammer drops. You cannot have the hammer back with the safety engaged on a Beretta 92FS or M9.

JR24 · Apr 9, 2021

JTQ said:
SIG traditional P-Series guns, the P220, P225, P226, P228, P229 all have a decocker and no safety. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_P220

The Beretta 92G has a decocker only and no manual safety https://www.beretta.com/en/92-g/

Indeed, decockers with safety are more rare than those with docockers and no safety.

JTQ · Apr 9, 2021

JR24 said:
Indeed, decockers with safety are more rare than those with docockers and no safety.

I know folks prefer them, but there are an awful lot of guns with decocker/safeties, from the Walter P38/PP, S&W Traditional Double Actions, Beretta's, Ruger's, etc. I know folks like the SIG decocker, but there really aren't many that have copied that design. Conversely, the slide mounted safety/decocker from the Walther P38 has been used by an awful lot of companies in an awful lot of guns.

Corpral_Agarn · Apr 9, 2021

Quite honestly I would invest in learning the DA trigger pull.

A lot of people over complicate it, but it's really not a big deal.

I also find that people who can shoot DA triggers well can pretty much shoot use any trigger type with good result

JR24 · Apr 9, 2021

JTQ said:
I know folks prefer them, but there are an awful lot of guns with decocker/safeties, from the Walter P38/PP, S&W Traditional Double Actions, Beretta's, Ruger's, etc. I know folks like the SIG decocker, but there really aren't many that have copied that design. Conversely, the slide mounted safety/decocker from the Walther P38 has been used by an awful lot of companies in an awful lot of guns.

How many are of those are still made though? Rugers, S&Ws are gone, does Walther still make the P38?. CZ does either a safety or decocker. Beretta, FNX, HK make them, who else does currently?

Edit:. Walther PPK, does Bersa do that? Guess there were a few more than I had thought.

DASA Cocked and Locked

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