I could be wrong...BUT

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Tinkerer's_Dam

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I have a feeling we will see Black Powder firearm ownership and use skyrocket as time goes on. I know I've been thinking more and more about Black Powder firearms as a very good alternative to have over modern cartridge firearms for sporting use and if it gets as bad as people have talked about for defensive use.
 
BP have had their ups and down in the last 25 years. Right now I am finding lots of "deals' on them and supplies. I suspect the reason is that I am a traditionalist with Great Plains Rifles etc. and the younger generation is more into in-lines. Only time will tell......
 
Aftershock51 said:
I browse a lot of firearm websites and there is definitely an upsurge of interest in black powder arms. One downside is that there will be more calls for regulation and banning of them (ex. Black Powder cannons), but more innovations will appear (ex. Modernized black powder guns).
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That's what I figure.
 
Thomasss said:
BP have had their ups and down in the last 25 years. Right now I am finding lots of "deals' on them and supplies. I suspect the reason is that I am a traditionalist with Great Plains Rifles etc. and the younger generation is more into in-lines. Only time will tell......
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I can see where a mix of old and new ideas could be applied. I've been thinking about experimenting with non-fixed ammunition and re-primed .357 magnum brass (should make for easier cleanup and still be able to use modern bullets, though I'm not against using cast lead projectiles) It should be completely safe in a .357 Magnum single shot rifle...though a bit slower and dirtier
 
I have some shotgun to pistol adapters
can shoot 12 ga to 45, 410, 20 ga, 38/357, 9mm, and 22LR. or 410 to 9mm, 38 or .22 etc.

I dont usually, but, I have them, have shot most of them once or twice just to try em.

Maybe a couple are the chiappa 10 or 12 inch rifled so you can actually get a little accuracy out of them.

I have a single shot 12 that is an inch over legal in barrel length (overall length is legal too), that I can shoot em out of and they are fun to take out and play with.

Explain please - im interested
non-fixed ammunition and re-primed .357 magnum brass
Click to expand...

d
 
This subforum is misnamed. The type of propellant (black powder or smokeless powder) has little significance in classifying weapons. What's important is the ignition system. I'd like to see the subforum renamed to something like "Antique Guns and Modern Copies."
 
webrx said:
I have some shotgun to pistol adapters
can shoot 12 ga to 45, 410, 20 ga, 38/357, 9mm, and 22LR. or 410 to 9mm, 38 or .22 etc.

I dont usually, but, I have them, have shot most of them once or twice just to try em.

Maybe a couple are the chiappa 10 or 12 inch rifled so you can actually get a little accuracy out of them.

I have a single shot 12 that is an inch over legal in barrel length (overall length is legal too), that I can shoot em out of and they are fun to take out and play with.

Explain please - im interested

d
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Okay think of the cap and ball paper revolver cartridges that more people were made aware of and some have began making...Now think of the same (a Paper cartridge containing powder and topped off by a properly sized cast bullet) and instead of then dealing with cramming something down the muzzle the paper cartridge is placed inside of a newly primed brass cartridge case, the primed brass case with inserted paper cartridge are then loaded into a modern break action rifle/shotgun. The brass would serve the function of supplying the ignition and be insurance against gas leakage...just thinking out loud.
 
OK, understood,

Seems you could accomplish the same thing without the paper cartridge, by simply loading the cartridge with black powder, and using BP lube on the bullet or a cardboard and then lubed wad under the bullet. This might also be safer since BP wants a little compression on the powder to ensure no air gap.

So yes, the cartridge and primer provide the ignition, and BP provides the charge. using a cardboard space and wad would allow you to use a modern bullet and still lube/reduce fowling

I thought about using paper cartridges in my BP revolvers and it was a bigger pain then just preloading the charge in a little tube and pour it in then add a wad and ball and ram it. Now I may do this for the 50 Cal, since it is a little bigger and my clunky fingers dont get in the way as much.

d
 
webrx said:
OK, understood,

Seems you could accomplish the same thing without the paper cartridge, by simply loading the cartridge with black powder, and using BP lube on the bullet or a cardboard and then lubed wad under the bullet. This might also be safer since BP wants a little compression on the powder to ensure no air gap.

So yes, the cartridge and primer provide the ignition, and BP provides the charge. using a cardboard space and wad would allow you to use a modern bullet and still lube/reduce fowling

I thought about using paper cartridges in my BP revolvers and it was a bigger pain then just preloading the charge in a little tube and pour it in then add a wad and ball and ram it. Now I may do this for the 50 Cal, since it is a little bigger and my clunky fingers dont get in the way as much.

d
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Well the non-fixed ammunition qualification is what had me thinking along the lines of paper cartridge inserted by hand into a primed brass case for use in break action rifles/shotguns.
 
AlexanderA said:
This subforum is misnamed. The type of propellant (black powder or smokeless powder) has little significance in classifying weapons. What's important is the ignition system. I'd like to see the subforum renamed to something like "Antique Guns and Modern Copies."
Click to expand...

I don't believe it's misnamed.
It is a discussion of Black Powder shooting including any and all ignition systems.
Most notably flint, percussion caps, small, large and shogun primers, and metallic cartridges, but also fused cannons, and match locks to name some others.
I'm not aware of any attempt to restrict the discussion in the Blackpowder forum to any specific classification of firearm.
 
apologies, I didn't connect the non-fixed ammunition part of the BP powder description - aka "law".

So yes, you could probably do something like you are discussing, just make sure the load you are putting in the gun is safe and if BP it has some compression on the powder charge. You could also do something like a single shot front stuffer in 45 or 50 cal with a 209 primer. Magspark makes an adapter that lets you shoot 209 primers on percussion rifles instead of percussion caps.

I am currently looking for a flintlock gun or rifle, I have percussion guns, I want to learn to id and make my own flints and not have to depend on supply and demand for an ignition source.

Best of luck, just be safe.

d
 
Malachi Leviticus Blue said:
I don't believe it's misnamed.
It is a discussion of Black Powder shooting including any and all ignition systems.
Most notably flint, percussion caps, small, large and shogun primers, and metallic cartridges, but also fused cannons, and match locks to name some others.
I'm not aware of any attempt to restrict the discussion in the Blackpowder forum to any specific classification of firearm.
Click to expand...
The "bright line," legally, is between cartridge guns and other types of ignition. Cartridge revolvers, for example, belong in the "Revolvers" subforum regardless of whether they use black powder or smokeless powder. As a matter of fact, the same revolver (such as a SAA clone) can often use both. The uniqueness is in the ignition system, not in the form of propellant.
 
AlexanderA said:
The "bright line," legally, is between cartridge guns and other types of ignition. Cartridge revolvers, for example, belong in the "Revolvers" subforum regardless of whether they use black powder or smokeless powder. As a matter of fact, the same revolver (such as a SAA clone) can often use both. The uniqueness is in the ignition system, not in the form of propellant.
Click to expand...

You seem to be referring to how the federal law differentiates "antique firearms" vrs "firearms"
This forum is about Black Powder.
So any cartridge discussions involving Black Powder are welcome here.
Any non cartridge discussions involving Black Powder are welcome here.
Any discussions involving Black Powder are welcome here, whats wrong with that?
Not sure why you are trying to suggest either should be shunned.
You appear to be trying to redefine the Blackpowder forum for some reason.
The majority of folks participating here seem to be pretty cool with the way it's been all the time.
 
AlexanderA said:
The "bright line," legally, is between cartridge guns and other types of ignition. Cartridge revolvers, for example, belong in the "Revolvers" subforum regardless of whether they use black powder or smokeless powder. As a matter of fact, the same revolver (such as a SAA clone) can often use both. The uniqueness is in the ignition system, not in the form of propellant.
Click to expand...

Legalities are irrelevant to what's discussed in this forum, as long as the topic of discussion is legal.

I've been here since Day One and the discussion of all BP firearms, including those using BP in metallic cartridges, has always been welcome.
 
Malachi Leviticus Blue said:
The majority of folks participating here seem to be pretty cool with the way it's been all the time.
Click to expand...
What prompted my remark is the confusion I see here all the time, with people conflating "black powder" and "antique." When lay people think about "black powder," they're not thinking about cartridge weapons.

When you're discussing a cartridge revolver, the proper place to put that discussion is in the "Revolvers" subforum. IMO.
 
AlexanderA said:
What prompted my remark is the confusion I see here all the time, with people conflating "black powder" and "antique." When lay people think about "black powder," they're not thinking about cartridge weapons.

When you're discussing a cartridge revolver, the proper place to put that discussion is in the "Revolvers" subforum. IMO.
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Understood on that Sir. But paper cartridges were in use before the modern self contained metallic versions became available and practical. Much of that knowledge was lost to time until rather recently.
 
AlexanderA said:
What prompted my remark is the confusion I see here all the time, with people conflating "black powder" and "antique." When lay people think about "black powder," they're not thinking about cartridge weapons.

When you're discussing a cartridge revolver, the proper place to put that discussion is in the "Revolvers" subforum. IMO.
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Nothing wrong with discussing anything Black Powder here, not sure why you insist the "proper" place is somewhere else. Also have not seen all the confusion you claim the have seen here. It's actually very straight forward. Talking about Black Powder? Yes u can discuss here. It really doesn't matter what laypeople think about black Powder. This forum is about black powder, that really is not confusing and you're the first one I've seen who seems to be confused.
 
Sim Carstairs said:
In response to Tinker’s original post, I believe newfound enthusiasm in black powder weapons will take an increase but then recede once ammunition and components start to appear on shelves again. Not too many months ago it was people hoarding toilet paper and coins.
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Very good point. But I think more people will stick to black powder arms after investing so much time and energy learning about the pros and cons. And it could lead to more of a revival and innovations.
 
Everybody's personal armory should contain muzzleloaders as well as bolt rifles and revolvers, in addition to more modern weapons. I for one will be dead before they get around to banning all of them. Hedge your bets.
 
I think there will be some that stick with it.
1. Some will buy a couple and put them away for the next rainy day, or as some perceived SHTF gotta have weapon
2. Some that will actually shoot them and get hooked and go on shooting them and enjoying them.

The truth is, that for about the same money than it cost to buy a steel 1851, 1858 or 1860 you can buy a 5 shot RIA or Taurus snub revolver in .38, and it is easier (when ammo is available) to just buy a box of 38 and shoot it, its easier to clean it, and you don't have to go through multiple steps to shoot it (or reload ammo for it). Some of us will, of course, but we are most likely in the second group.

So, yes, there will be those (some are already showing up here) that will buy a BP for the first time, those that are "handy", self-sufficient, DIY types of folks will probably stick with it, cuz it is kind of fun to load and shoot.

Those that buy but are not really DIY (or self sufficient) types, that just bought it as a SD firearm if SHTF, will probably be in group 1 above, they will put the gun away somewhere, shoot it once or never, and a year from now wonder why they bought it. If you keep your eyes open, AND, ammo and guns show back up on the shelfs in quantity, you just might be able to pick up some of those now scarce BP firearms the #1 group bought for a song 6 months to a year from now.

OK, yes, I realize that I may sound a little "stereo-typical", but, over the last 60 or so years, I have seen these types of things before, and that is usually how they play out.

I hope an pray this is just another one of those things, like it was the last time, and all will eventually get back to a some semblance of normal, at least for the next 30 or so years cuz I figure I wont live much past 90 and change.

d
 
webrx said:
I think there will be some that stick with it.
1. Some will buy a couple and put them away for the next rainy day, or as some perceived SHTF gotta have weapon
2. Some that will actually shoot them and get hooked and go on shooting them and enjoying them.

The truth is, that for about the same money than it cost to buy a steel 1851, 1858 or 1860 you can buy a 5 shot RIA or Taurus snub revolver in .38, and it is easier (when ammo is available) to just buy a box of 38 and shoot it, its easier to clean it, and you don't have to go through multiple steps to shoot it (or reload ammo for it). Some of us will, of course, but we are most likely in the second group.

So, yes, there will be those (some are already showing up here) that will buy a BP for the first time, those that are "handy", self-sufficient, DIY types of folks will probably stick with it, cuz it is kind of fun to load and shoot.

Those that buy but are not really DIY (or self sufficient) types, that just bought it as a SD firearm if SHTF, will probably be in group 1 above, they will put the gun away somewhere, shoot it once or never, and a year from now wonder why they bought it. If you keep your eyes open, AND, ammo and guns show back up on the shelfs in quantity, you just might be able to pick up some of those now scarce BP firearms the #1 group bought for a song 6 months to a year from now.

OK, yes, I realize that I may sound a little "stereo-typical", but, over the last 60 or so years, I have seen these types of things before, and that is usually how they play out.

I hope an pray this is just another one of those things, like it was the last time, and all will eventually get back to a some semblance of normal, at least for the next 30 or so years cuz I figure I wont live much past 90 and change.

d
Click to expand...

I’ve been owning and shooting guns for years, but never actually looked forward to the range until buying an 1851. Something about smithing the gun and hand loading all components made from mundane materials feels like alchemy. It also cultivates all the best qualities a shooter could have: patience, making shots count, familiarity with the weapon, and humility about the capabilities of the weapon.
 
Funny, the only time I ever wondered if I should be in the BP forum or somewhere else was when I was asking about bp cartridges. Then it was should I be in BP or Reloading.

I may be wrong here (not the first time) but aren’t there also some cartridge guns that don’t fall under firearm also? Curios and collectibles?

that does not really define BP though, just whether or not a background check is required I believe. Again, I may be wrong.
D
 
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