A Note RE: Rifle Recoil...

I'm not going to take the time to read the entire report, I did skim over parts of it. But that just confirms what shooters have observed for years. I've heard the comment my whole life that a 30-06 was the most recoil that just about any shooter could learn to tolerate. And with most loads and rifles right about 19 ft lbs is what you get.

The 270, 280, and 30-06 are for all practical purposes triplets giving near identical recoil and performance on game when bullets of similar BC and SD are used. I've never been bothered by the recoil from any of the 3. At least for a certain number of shots.

I've owned various magnum cartridges in the past. I don't find 7mm Rem mag to be noticeably worse in recoil than 30-06. It might be slightly over 20 ft lbs depending on the load and rifle. But most 300 mags are going to be near, if not over 30 ft lbs recoil. As are rounds like 35 Whlen and 338/06. I was able to tolerate recoil well enough for a few 3 shot groups. But they certainly aren't enjoyable to shoot enough to get really proficient.

One of the primary advantages of the short action equivalents, 7-08, 260, 6.5 CM and 308 is that they will generate similar recoil, but in a rifle about a pound lighter. Or recoil in the 14-15 ft lb range in equal weight rifles.

One aspect that I didn't see discussed, but I've observed, is how round count and recoil effect accuracy. I seem to handle 30-06 recoil just as well as 308 recoil initially. But after taking 20-30 shots the recoil of 30-06 does seem to start effecting me. I can put more rounds down range with my 308 before the effects of recoil start to take a toll. I reach a point where shooting any longer is counter productive and I find I can get in more rounds with 308 than 30-06 before that happens. That is when it's time to bring out the 22.

Add this one to your chart.

Thomas Bland 4 bore rifle, 18 lbs.
385 gr. FG
2000 gr conical bullet
shotgun primer in custom made 4" long case
1600 FPS
240 Ft. Lbs. of recoil.

OUCH!

I observed some years ago that I had a personal threshold of recoil tolerance. For me, it was typified by the 35 Whelen: I could tolerate the recoil using my 225 gr. bullet reloads, but the 250 gr reloads were just a bit too much...

Interesting link. It pretty well matches my personal experience - and I think I am on the low end of recoil tolerance in rifles. I really don't even care for 180/2700 any more, and am gaining a real soft spot for the .257 Bob.

I have a 4 bore rifle. It weighs about 18 pounds. Heaviest load I have fired in it is 500 grains of FFg. That is well over 300 pounds of recoil. It will knock you back a few feet but I can take a few shots without getting a bruised shoulder. Shooting the big recoil guns is something that you can learn to do. You do not have to be a 300 pound monster. You do have to work up to it slowly over a long period of time. In 19th century there were guys that shot these things every day without much trouble. But if you have never fired anything larger than a 30 caliber a 4 bore might put you in the hospital.

A friend of mine wanted to shoot his .308 bolt-action Western Field at 100 yards, so we took them to the range. I had plenty of 7.62 ammo, and so sold him a box for what I paid for it. (Wouldn't do that now, of course) I took my SAR-48HB and shot it. After a while, we swapped guns for a couple rounds. Naturally he loved the SAR and naturally, we couldn't swap back fast enough for me. While the WF .308 wasn't at all brutal, the difference was like 12ga v. .22LR.

My biggest shot was .375 H&H. At the time I found it to be a monster. That was before I bought a .45-70 barrel for my contender, but that is for another thread and has no bearing here.

There is a world of difference between free recoil (physics) and felt recoil (stock design, recoil pads, muzzle breaks, perception, etc). You can tame felt recoil quite a bit by just changing stocks like going from a “classic” design with a hard butt plate to a thumbhole design with a recoil taming pad and installing a rear angle vented muzzle break.

Armorer 101 said:

There is a world of difference between free recoil (physics) and felt recoil (stock design, recoil pads, muzzle breaks, perception, etc). You can tame felt recoil quite a bit by just changing stocks like going from a “classic” design with a hard butt plate to a thumbhole design with a recoil taming pad and installing a rear angle vented muzzle break.

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It should be noted that the TOP 3-2-504 limitation are based on a recoiling test stand that simulates shoulder firing, so muzzle brakes and rubber pads are taken into account.

The fact that high recoil is not a good thing has been known and studied for a long time.

Recoil Considerations for Shoulder-Fired Weapons (ARL, 2012)

The Effects of Recoil on Shooter Performance (ARL, 1996)

The Effects Of Rifle Recoil on Marksmanship Performance (Tufts University, 1955)

Measurements of Recoil Velocites of Various Machine Guns and Rifles (BRL, 1940)

Bill Raby said:

I have a 4 bore rifle. It weighs about 18 pounds. Heaviest load I have fired in it is 500 grains of FFg. That is well over 300 pounds of recoil. It will knock you back a few feet but I can take a few shots without getting a bruised shoulder. Shooting the big recoil guns is something that you can learn to do. You do not have to be a 300 pound monster. You do have to work up to it slowly over a long period of time. In 19th century there were guys that shot these things every day without much trouble. But if you have never fired anything larger than a 30 caliber a 4 bore might put you in the hospital.

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This is Ray Meyer, holding the Thomas Bland. This pic was taken in the mid 80s. Ray shot the gun occasionally and he didn't weigh more than 145 pounds, soaking wet. Shooting from the bench is out, you must be standing. Roll with the recoil and take a step or two backwards. I fired it and and I can truthfully say it wasn't the most pleasant experience of my life. There was a hospital involved.

Felt recoil is the reason I really don't like to shoot my Rem 721 30-06. That thing is brutal. I really need to get a limb saver or aftermarket stock for it and see how much of a difference it makes.

TheBruce said:

Felt recoil is the reason I really don't like to shoot my Rem 721 30-06. That thing is brutal. I really need to get a limb saver or aftermarket stock for it and see how much of a difference it makes.

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They can make a lot!

My 375 Ruger is built on an old Browning abolt 2. It came with one of the best factory synthetic stocks I've ever used, except for the fact that the hard recoil pad and very straight line stock drove it straight into your shoulder.
They gun originally started life as a 7 mm Remington Magnum, a cartridge I already had two other rifles to compare it to, and that abolt was just plain painful.

I eventually ended up putting a euro bolt wooden stock on it and just a little extra drop at the heel and toe gave the gun some roll which took the sting out of the still hard recoil pad.

When I converted it to 375 Ruger I also added a Kickeez and fitted the stock to my comfortable length of pull.
Even with my fairly punchy handloads, that gun is more comfortable to shoot now than it was as a 7 mag delivering half the recoil energy.

TheBruce said:

Felt recoil is the reason I really don't like to shoot my Rem 721 30-06. That thing is brutal. I really need to get a limb saver or aftermarket stock for it and see how much of a difference it makes.

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You would be amazed what a huge difference just putting a new pad on your rifle will make . I have a rifle like yours , and it helped a great deal when I put a good pad on it . I also added a little weight to balance the rifle out , which tamed the muzzle jump down .

Been in construction my whole life,heck came out of retirement to do some restoration work recently to include a goodly amt of brickwork. 5'9 at 210# . Just sayin,other than a really slow pulse rate(mid 40's)..... am built like brick sh*thouse,haha.

20 rounds of cast 130's out of a 7-08 @midrange velocity..... is about all I can really keep focus on.

TheBruce said:

Felt recoil is the reason I really don't like to shoot my Rem 721 30-06. That thing is brutal. I really need to get a limb saver or aftermarket stock for it and see how much of a difference it makes.

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TB, I did just that. Really makes a difference. And what really tames it is using 125 grain ammo. I thoroughly enjoy shooting the old 721 now.

From the bench my tolerance level is about 60 ft/lbs. for about 20 to 25 rounds! For my wife, from the bench is about 38 ft/lbs for around 10 rounds. Both rifles are fitted pretty well to us, and have a good recoil pad. That said, after an extended day on the bench....my next day shooting is pretty dismal due to a “tender” shoulder. Groups then run in the 1 1/2” to 2” range. memtb

That sounds about right for an average, bearing in mind of course that some people will start clamping down and fliching well below 19, others can stay relaxed and shoot well with a good bit more. .300 win mag is is about my threshhold for being able to relax enough to shoot well for more than a few shots. The 8 mag belts me hard enough that my accuracy will fall off after a couple groups, start to get tender from letting it move and clamp down harder.

For being able to keep it up all day, though, I'd still be in that <20 range. After a couple boxes through the .300, I'm fatigued. .25-06, .308, 7mm-08, etc., the limits on my shooting them well are available time and ammunition supply, not comfort.

And of course the weapon makes a big difference. The FRE energy of the 7.5x54 in a MAS36 isn't that great, but it's a fairly brutal little rifle to shoot, as are many others with steel butt plates. My Remington model 11 with the cut down stock and steel butt plate is quite abusive with high brass loads, especially slugs.

Suppressors are a big game changer, too. That same .300 win mag, a pretty light weight Mossberg Patriot, I can shoot well for a heck of a lot longer suppressed. Even my .375 RUM, one of those that "kills on both ends" with the standard plastic butt plate, is tolerable off the bench with a can on it. Without, the recoil and concussion will give me a headache in short order, and I will not fire that gun prone without a suppressor ever again.

.458 Lott, 500gr @ 2175. "Pleasant" is not the word that springs to mind when shooting it, but after that a .300 WM feels "refreshing", and when someone mentions "recoil" when talking about an AK or an AR your eyebrows raise in puzzlement...

Interesting document. Esp the photos. I've learned to NOT look at my shoulder after a range session with one of my Steyr-Mannlicher M95's.
Thanks for posting the link, though. Downloaded and saved for future reference.

Kano383 said:

when someone mentions "recoil" when talking about an AK or an AR your eyebrows raise in puzzlement...

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I have the same thought.

The 5.56 and x39 have very little (to me) felt recoil. My main deer rifle is a Remington 700 in 30-06; I can shoot it about 10 times before I'm "done". That is with factory ammo, however. With my handloads I can go to 15 shots before I have to quit for the day. But, I'm usually only shooting 3 shots to check zero once a year and then about 3 shots throughout the year at deer. I shot a 1903 for a while with M2 ball, and it wasn't terrible until about shot number 12-14. Now that I don't shoot matches, my shoulder thanks me!

I know this is the rifle forum, but we really want to get into hard kicking guns, shoot a 10 gauge at snow geese all day. And no, I don't mean an automatic; a 12 pound double barreled 3.5" magnum 10 gauge loaded with 1 7/8oz of BB shot. The next day, you won't raise your arm higher than your chest; scratching your nose is a weak-hand proposition for a couple days. The first dozen shots aren't too bad, its the rest of the box that kills you. The second box is even worse, because that one usually comes after lunch and you've had time to get sore. The third (if you can stand it) makes you very choosy about which shots you take.

Mac