The .270 Winchester - Tom River Explains...

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When it comes to the 270 Winchester or 280 Remington they are both good. The 280 is a little faster with a 140 grain bullet but when I pull the trigger they both feel the same and perform the same. Just pick a good powder like IMR 4831 and a good bullet like the 140 grain Nosler partition for either rifle and all is good. The reloading community has worked out all of the bugs for so many years that there is very little else to discover. Longer bullets and faster twists won't do much for the average hunter. And, the white bass, walleye and channel cats are running up the river. Worked this past week to clear brush away from the bank to make fishing easier.

I watched two or three of Tom River's posts on youtube and he talks so dang slow and says so very little that I can't stand to watch him.

The "apples-to-apples" comparison b/t the .270 and .280 light bullets: Are the 130 v. 140 gr.

.277/130 gr. NP:
SD = 0.242
BC = 0.416
MV ~ 3060 fps (factory)

.284/140 gr. NP:
SD = 0.248
BC = 0.434
MV ~ 2990 fps (factory)


Somewhat the point of the 270 is to use the 130's...

For long range and string straight - like the 130 gr. NP's and monometals.




GR
 
Might wanna take a look at the Federal Fusion line for a cheaper "hard" bullet option as well.
Ive used them in my 280AI, and even with fire forming to the AI chamber they were delivering 3050 from my ridgelines 26" barrel, which should put them awful close to 3000 from a 24.
If thr .270s perform similarly they should at least make 3050 from a 24.

Most factory ammo ive chronographed was 50-200fps slower than advertised.
 
... and saves me the trouble of makin' a vid.



('cept I settled on the 150 gr. FB/SP @ 2800 fps.)

:D




GR

For my Ruger Alaskan in .270, I choose Speer Grand Slam 150 gr. in Remington brass. I don't recall exactly which powder or the amount of grains I utilized, but I've never had an issue with dropping a deer or elk. At least not at typical yardages' under 250 yds. I'm not competent enough to shoot at longer ranges! At least, not any more! HeeHee!
 
The "apples-to-apples" comparison b/t the .270 and .280 light bullets: Are the 130 v. 140 gr. GR

Yes, I get the comparison between the 130 v 140 for the two cartridges. But, the 270 was my primary deer hunting cartridge for about 20 years and as the years went by I wanted more out of the 270 so I moved to the 140 grain. Every time I have made a rifle change it has been to a heavier bullet or a larger diameter bullet. Rather than using a 150 grain bullet in a 270 Winchester about 20 years ago I moved to a 165 grain bullet in a 30-06 which I liked better.

As for the 280 Remington I recently worked up a good load with the Nosler Partition and it shoots really good. The 280 feels just like a 270 when it fires and I don't notice any travel time difference to a 200 meter steel target. The two cartridges are so similar it's hard to argue the comparison between the two. I always used IMR 4831 for the 270 and I was surprised to find that IMR 4831 worked better in my 280 than either H4350 or Rl17. It may take me a while to get some Rl19.
 
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Yes, I get the comparison between the 130 v 140 for the two cartridges. But, the 270 was my primary deer hunting cartridge for about 20 years and as the years went by I wanted more out of the 270 so I moved to the 140 grain. Every time I have made a rifle change it has been to a heavier bullet or a larger diameter bullet. Rather than using a 150 grain bullet in a 270 Winchester about 20 years ago I moved to a 165 grain bullet in a 30-06 which I liked better.

As for the 280 Remington I recently worked up a good load with the Nosler Partition and it shoots really good. The 280 feels just like a 270 when it fires and I don't notice any travel time difference to a 200 meter steel target. The two cartridges are so similar it's hard to argue the comparison between the two. I always used IMR 4831 for the 270 and I was surprised to find that IMR 4831 worked better in my 280 than either H4350 or Rl17. It may take me a while to get some Rl19.
I run reloader 23 in my 280 AI behind 160s and 150s. I don't know if the standard 280 can get enough powder in there to make the jump to the slower powders, But my 280 AI really does well with that powder range. I'm still looking for some reloader 26. I know one store just got a shipment of stuff in so I'm having my buddy check it out for me today.
 
I run reloader 23 in my 280 AI behind 160s and 150s. I don't know if the standard 280 can get enough powder in there to make the jump to the slower powders, But my 280 AI really does well with that powder range. I'm still looking for some reloader 26. I know one store just got a shipment of stuff in so I'm having my buddy check it out for me today.

I've got both Reloader 22 and 150 grain NP bullets and I will try that when I get time. Nosler says Reloader 22 is the most accurate load with 150 grain bullets in their test rifle. I've also got some Reloader 25 and it is the velocity king and accurate in my 25-06 so you may be onto something with Reloader 26. At this point I'm not too thrilled with the so called temperature stable powders from either Hodgdon or Alliant. I tried H4350 and it didn't shoot as well as IMR 4350, and I tried Reloader 16 and it didn't shoot as well as Reloader 17. It doesn't take long to figure out which Alliant powders are popular because it was hard to find Reloader 15 and Reloader 26 when powder was available.
 
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I've got both Reloader 22 and 150 grain NP bullets and I will try that when I get time. Nosler says Reloader 22 is the most accurate load with 150 grain bullets in their test rifle. I've also got some Reloader 25 and it is the velocity king and accurate in my 25-06 so you may be onto something with Reloader 26. At this point I'm not too thrilled with the so called temperature stable powders from either Hodgdon or Alliant. I tried H4350 and it didn't shoot as well as IMR 4350, and I tried Reloader 16 and it didn't shoot as well as Reloader 17. It doesn't take long to figure out which Alliant powders are popular because it was hard to find Reloader 15 and Reloader 26 when powder was available.
I tried reloader 25 in my 280 AI and just couldn't get enough powder in the case. 26 is supposed to be a little less bulky which is what I think makes it ideal for cartridges in this capacity/bore ratio range.

I've never tried 15 16 or 17 in the 280 or any other 30-06 base cartridge. I shoot 16 and 17 in my 6.5 creedmoors and my 375 Ruger. Besides being temp sensitive 17 has been fantastic for me.
I'm still messing with 16 but So far my experience matches yours. it doesn't seem as accurate in general, and the velocity spread is noticeably higher. until you're really cramming it in there.
 
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...At this point I'm not too thrilled with the so called temperature stable powders from either Hodgdon or Alliant...

After decades of singular use of IMR 4831 in the .270 Win, both 130 and 150 gr., have generally switched to H4831, specifically for the temp stability.

In 22" Bbls - slower powders aren't very efficient for the minimal gains in velocity, and Double-Base powders extract a toll in throat erosion.

(unless you go to RE-26, which is the Dragon's Breath for the heavy .270 Win. loads)

So it's Single-Base 4831 powder for me.

Even the sluggish .277/150 gr. Speer Grand Slam, with a full charge of either 4831, will produce a little over 2800 fps at a 22" muzzle, and ~ 1250 ft-lb at 400 yards.




GR
 
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After decades of singular use of IMR 4831 in the .270 Win, both 130 and 150 gr., have generally switched to H4831, specifically for the temp stability. GR

I am planning to try some H4831sc when it becomes available again. When I started using the Alliant Rl17 several years ago I recognized how much better it was not to have the powder cutting in the powder measure. That has always been annoying to me.

For many years I used only IMR 4831 and IMR 4350 for my reloading but that all ended when I found Alliant powders. Reloader 17 is a very versatile powder and I have used it for my 25-06, 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 30-06 and 338-06. I have added Rl15, Rl17 and Rl22 to my list of referred powders but I can't get away from 4831 and 4350. .
 
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I am planning to try some H4831sc when it becomes available again. When I started using the Alliant Rl17 several years ago I recognized how much better it was not to have the powder cutting in the powder measure. That has always been annoying to me.

For many years I used only IMR 4831 and IMR 4350 for my reloading but that all ended when I found Alliant powders. Reloader 17 is a very versatile powder and I have used it for my 25-06, 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 30-06 and 338-06. I have added Rl15, Rl17 and Rl22 to my list of referred powders but I can't get away from 4831 and 4350. .

When referring to H4831 - assumed the "sc" variety, as it is more temp stable than the long cut, and easier to work with.

But you're right RE: those IMR powders.

Used to get sub-MOA groups w/ IMR 4831, CCI 200 primers, and Speer HC bullets, using Lee powder scoops carded off.




GR
 
I still use my model 700 in .270 that my Dad bought the first year they came out. I have taken Axis Deer and whitetail for many years. H4831sc with 130 gr BTs = cloverleafs all day long at the range. Remington used to produce some fine looking stocks and nice shooting barrels back in the day. I use SGKs for hunting though since I did not enjoy picking lead from meat with the exploded BTs.
 
I still use my model 700 in .270 that my Dad bought the first year they came out. I have taken Axis Deer and whitetail for many years. H4831sc with 130 gr BTs = cloverleafs all day long at the range. Remington used to produce some fine looking stocks and nice shooting barrels back in the day. I use SGKs for hunting though since I did not enjoy picking lead from meat with the exploded BTs.

Have gone to the 150 gr. for that reason as well.

Striking high through the lungs leaves a nice exit and a short dead run.

...and striking through the lungs into the off shoulder, especially the bigger stuff, usually anchors'em.

Just don't see the need for more.




GR
 
I started seriously hunting big game with the used like new 1953 Winchester model 70 in .270 Win I was given for my 16th birthday in NJ in 1962 by my Uncle the NYPD Detective. He was a big deer and moose hunter in upstate NY and Penn and had no male children and was my Godfather. It has a Unertl Hawk scope with internal adjustments and calibrated dots for the 130 grain load at 100 and 300 yards . The 100 yard dot is about 2 MOA and the 300 yard dot is about 1/2 MOA and that scope is still clear as a bell and the rifle a little worse for wear but still "The Rifleman's Rifle" :) . I retired that rifle in the late 90s when I bought a New Haven Made Ultimate Classic Winchester Model 70 in .270 Win Short Mag , which I put a matching Leupold Vx3 in "stainless " finish in "stainless" Gamereaper uni mount. The weird but extremely dense Rynite stock was bedded and the trigger adjusted to 3 pound icicle and with Winchester Factory 130 loads it allways produced 1.5" groups at 200 yards where I sighted it in at. That rifle went to Africa about 5 years later and slew all the planes games like lightning . It has taken one bull and one cow elk and a few pigs and quite a few deer and to this day is my "go to " deer gun as it has not changed zero in 20 years of hunting.. In reloading for this HUNTING caliber I found the .270 WSM give easy 3200+ FPS for 130 grain bullets and 2900+ for 150 grain bullets in the 24" barrel, real chronographed results which are about 300 fps higher than hot loaded .270 Winchester same weight loads from my first gun. Does 300 fps make a big difference ? I doubt it, it is noticeably a little flatter shooting at 300 yards out , and maybe a little more accurate with that short fat case being the original .270 was barely a 1 moa gun with it's best loads. I think the advantage of the .270 WSM best shows up with monolithic copper bullets where the little bit better velocity insures expansion.
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How long did the 30-06 reign over the 270 as a competition cartridge when it never had the support of precission barrels or the right components? I have mentioned it at least few times over the last decade. What we do know is that it shoots flatter and has more energy at long distance.

Be that as it may the thought of what could have or should have been no longer matters when better things have come to take their place.

It's been said that more deer have been taken in a bolt action chambered in 270 win than any other cartridge in North america. Dont know how true that is.

I have also heard that more deer have been taken with a 30-30 than any other cartridge. Can't say that is fact or not either.

What I can say is the 270 win had an undeserved reputation of not being suitable to a few tasks it really was more than capable of....if given a fair shake.

While the .270 might be flatter shooting, it falls decidedly behind the 30-06 in power at long distance. Just doesn't have as good a BC bullets available for it. Even trying to keep it "fair" by picking the same brand and style of bullets, the longer heavier bullets of the 30-06 beat it out in KE. If we measure momentum, which is probably a better indicator, the gap widens.

No doubt the .270 enjoyed some popularity. But I believe the 30-30 has the crown. 30 more years in the field, and in 2015 was 4th in ammo sales in the U.S.
 
Twist rate on the 1894 Swedish Mauser was 1 in 7.8 inches and they were throated to handle 156 grain round nose bullets.

125 years ago they were already being made with a leade and twist rate that'd handle the longest VLD's anyone is likely to want.

The metallurgy wasn't up to modern standards and propellant technology was still in it's infancy, but they sure as hell had the barrel mechanics figured out.

Yup! I'll stick with my old Swede. You can dangle a long bullet out there like nobody's business, and match the CM ballistics out of a gun over 100 years old. And loaded to new gun pressures, handily leave it behind. I still giggle when guys buy a Creedmore and think somehow, that it's new hottest new shooting technology out there!

There's considerable debate on the action strength of the 96 Mauser action, and some rechambered factory guns indicate it's not that weak, but it was not poor metallurgy. The original actions are still being used 120 years later, and prized for their function. The barrels were very well made, and regarded as perhaps the first factory MOA capable rifles. Testing the Swedish steel (c'mon, SWEDISH!) found very low inclusion of impurities. A fairly well known machine gun authority had come across a good deal for some Swede barrels, so he bought several. They were fitted to a gun that had a service life of about 5000 rounds before the original barrels were considered shot out, with too large a dispersal. If I recall right, the new barrels grouped well giving 4" groups which was very good for machine gun, 100 yards. 15 000 rounds later, he was still getting 4 inch groups.
 
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If I may ask......having watched the video and waded through the thread.........I'm about to start loading for my Dad's old 270.....also a 700 BDL. Has killed a lot of deer over the years and none of them past 200 yards, and don't ever expect to. More like 100 yards for most of them. Every deer it has ever killed has been with factory ammo of one shade or another and always 130 gr or 150 grain bullets.

Bullets I have and plan to load are 130 gr Sierra Game Kings.......and/or 140 Gr Nosler Partitions. Powders I have to work with are IMR 4350 and a 4831, what I think will turn out to be H4831sc. What should my optimum velocity be?

Reason I"m asking is the confusion between soft or tough bullets and high or low velocity. I'm assuming mine are both soft bullets, so ought to be loading for the low end of velocity? If that means less recoil, that is even better knowing who my shooters are.
 
If I may ask......having watched the video and waded through the thread.........I'm about to start loading for my Dad's old 270.....also a 700 BDL. Has killed a lot of deer over the years and none of them past 200 yards, and don't ever expect to. More like 100 yards for most of them. Every deer it has ever killed has been with factory ammo of one shade or another and always 130 gr or 150 grain bullets.

Bullets I have and plan to load are 130 gr Sierra Game Kings.......and/or 140 Gr Nosler Partitions. Powders I have to work with are IMR 4350 and a 4831, what I think will turn out to be H4831sc. What should my optimum velocity be?

Reason I"m asking is the confusion between soft or tough bullets and high or low velocity. I'm assuming mine are both soft bullets, so ought to be loading for the low end of velocity? If that means less recoil, that is even better knowing who my shooters are.
The SGKs and the partitions have an operational range starting at about 1,800 ft per second impact velocity. I'd be quite comfortable with either loaded to about 2,800 ft per second if I was looking for reduced recoil. 4831 may not be the powder to try that with but 4350 should work just fine.....

That said, while I've loaded for 270 quite a bit, developing those reduced loads for accuracy is outside of my personal experience range.
 
I started hunting with 270 later part of the 60's. My 270 now has McMillan stock,Lilja 1/10 twist barrel @ 24.6" and it's long throated. Been hunting with 150gr ABLR,IMR-7828ssc. Since I have other hunting rifles 30 cal/7mm, I see no point in changing barrel twist. Been shooting some 165gr ABLR in my 270Wby and it's got 1/10 twist barrel. June I'll find out what draw tags I got (Co) and if good bull tag I'll start shooting 270Wby around 9/10K. Tomorrow I pick up 8lbs R-26.
 
Been shooting some 165gr ABLR in my 270Wby and it's got 1/10 twist barrel. June I'll find out what draw tags I got (Co) and if good bull tag I'll start shooting 270Wby around 9/10K. Tomorrow I pick up 8lbs R-26.

My first high dollar hunting rifle was a 270Wby with a slim 24 inch barrel back in 1965. It would make circles over the eye if it wasn't held right. It never got me but it was a real laugh to seeing my friends shoot it. I always warned them before they fired but a warning is not like the real experience.

Finding the R-26 is some good luck. By any chance are you close to the Salida Gun Shop? I plan on going there in September because they always stock a lot of Nosler bullets, Lapua brass and powder.
 
I started hunting with 270 later part of the 60's. My 270 now has McMillan stock,Lilja 1/10 twist barrel @ 24.6" and it's long throated. Been hunting with 150gr ABLR,IMR-7828ssc. Since I have other hunting rifles 30 cal/7mm, I see no point in changing barrel twist. Been shooting some 165gr ABLR in my 270Wby and it's got 1/10 twist barrel. June I'll find out what draw tags I got (Co) and if good bull tag I'll start shooting 270Wby around 9/10K. Tomorrow I pick up 8lbs R-26.
Thats a nice rig!
I couldn't get the 150ablrs to stabilize in my 1-10 .270
 
If I may ask......having watched the video and waded through the thread.........I'm about to start loading for my Dad's old 270.....also a 700 BDL. Has killed a lot of deer over the years and none of them past 200 yards, and don't ever expect to. More like 100 yards for most of them. Every deer it has ever killed has been with factory ammo of one shade or another and always 130 gr or 150 grain bullets.

Bullets I have and plan to load are 130 gr Sierra Game Kings.......and/or 140 Gr Nosler Partitions. Powders I have to work with are IMR 4350 and a 4831, what I think will turn out to be H4831sc. What should my optimum velocity be?

Reason I"m asking is the confusion between soft or tough bullets and high or low velocity. I'm assuming mine are both soft bullets, so ought to be loading for the low end of velocity? If that means less recoil, that is even better knowing who my shooters are.

Depends on how you like to hunt.

If you loaded both of'em to 2800 fps at the muzzle - they'd both give you ~ 1500 ft-lb at 250 yds., and would be sweet shooting and lighter recoiling.

Just put'em through the chest or lungs, aimin' for the off shoulder.


Or, load'em at 3000 fps and 2900 fps respectively - and use the SGK's exclusively for dbl-lung shots, and the NP's for any shot presented, and expect full 18-19 ft-lb of recoil.




GR
 
Im still indifferent on the 270. I have never had anything bad to say about it specifically.....

But....

I have since watched several more Tom River vids about bullets and scopes and whatnot and I now have 2 270 rifles in my GB watch list. Haha.
 
I am a big proponent of 270’s with mv’s around 3K fps......270 grains that is! ;) memtb
The .378 Weatherby which had a tank brake and weighed 10 pounds scoped did that but it was the only rifle I truly hated .I shot a box of shells in about six months out of it, using every heavy recoil management available at the time and got rid of that Schultz and Larsen SOB !
 
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