Question for anyone who raises cattle

I’d be curious why anyone would want to make that cross.

Do you have any idea how vicious a Cape Buffalo is?

Then for 2024 we will have murder cattle.

What Capstick said.
Buffalo are bad enough.
We don’t need to be importing more trouble.

So to increase meat production I guess you could maybe cross them with a Belgium Blue. That should do the trick. But God help you if you ever pissed one off.

The idea behind selective breeding and hybridization is to improve upon the parent genetics or to reinforce positive genetics. Breeding cattle to Cape Buffalo would seem, at least IMHO to do neither. You'd end up with a dumbed down game animal that is probably worse eating than the cow it was bred to. Odds are it would take several breedings to get the animal to be controllable and safe in a domestic environment.

I bet the PBR would be interested. Those Brazilians will ride anything.

Capstick1 said:

Has anyone ever attempted to create a hybrid of an African Cape Buffalo and a domesticated cow?

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It's been done.
Polled Pelosi
You cant eat them,or milk them. Very flatulent.
They're just for show.

We have had cattle my entire life and I have bottle fed a bunch of them over the years that will follow you around like a dog. Loved to be petted and scratched the same and even had one that grew up in a backyard with two dogs that would wag its tail and moo in short grunts, trying to sound like a dog barking.

That said, we don’t do exotics and sell at local auctions by the pound. Haul them up there on a Friday, stop by on Sunday and pick up the check or just have them mail it to you.

The income from the cattle isn’t their highest revenue function, it is the money saved in taxes by having them that is the primary function. Hay works for open places and requires less fences and winter time work is eliminated.

Capstick1 said:

attempted to create a hybrid of an African Cape Buffalo and a domesticated cow

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It's already been done; they're called Brangus and are the meanest, high-headed, fence-busting cattle this side of hell. I'm kidding of course, but Dad has 55 head of the damned things and I despise them. Honestly, I'd think anyone who'd attempt to cross a Cape Buffalo with anything has a death wish.

Mac

BigBore44 said:

So to increase meat production I guess you could maybe cross them with a Belgium Blue. That should do the trick. But God help you if you ever pissed one off. View attachment 992409View attachment 992410

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Wow!
I bet you would need a hammer and chisel to cut that steak!

MacAR said:

Brangus

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The key to that word being the Br. Brahma cattle were big in the 80’s around here. Low birth weight and hardy. But they could be very high strung. “Floppy” was my grandpa’s bull’s name. Big ears, high neck hump, large dewlap. We weren’t allowed in the pasture alone. Sometimes grandpa would have to whack him with a stick from off of the tractor seat. Mean and crazy Floppy was, but sure raised good calves.

The longhorn was a hybrid meant to have better heat resistance and drought tolerance than the available shorthorns.
Brangus, a mix of Indian Brahma and Angus was another attempt to get a drought and heat tolerant stock.
Both of those have had some success.

All have which have paled before the genius of the Black Angus Marketing Board to create demand at the retail level. Which is a touch hilarious as there's no way to tell in the butcher's case what breed of stock a given steak is from. Not even primals will much tell you, either. Until you get to the whole side will you have enough anatomy to tell. Even then, "Black Angus" is really a Herford cross with Limosene, and really only refers to hide color. If you are raising beeves for profit, you really want them to all be of about a same size for the same requirements in water, grazing/feed, etc.

Now, a Cape Buff does not add that much to most beef cattle; and is probably a subtraction in dairy cattle (placid is a good characteristic in dairy stock, that, and fertility). Dairy production in dry environments is better met through goats or sheep than bovines.

Further, there has been some domestication of "Cape" stock, as water buffalo are one of the most common cattle stocks around the world. Water buffalo in Parma give us the milk for the eponymous cheese.

Water buffalo can make for good game stock, as the feral and wild versions are wily and tricky to harvest, with Capes being first on that list.

My dad raised registered Herefords. He and his cousin owned a bull from John Wayne's ranch. I believe it was in Arizona.

We called him Duke (naturally)
He was long and lean and gentle.

We sold 4H club calves and fed the rest.
27 head of brood cows until I went to college(hmmm?)

We had saddle horses too.

My heart still skips a beat when I see an open gate somewhere.

Beyond milking them by hand before going off to school in the 40’s, after mucking out the barn, combing the high pastures for them in the summer and watching a few get slaughtered for beef in November I grew with up but know nothing of Cattle. But this thread sure beats those ones about killing wild hogs.

The domestication of animals was historically known as a breakthrough achievement in the development of civilizations. Of course this was also combined with domestication of plants to incorporate all of agriculture. The groups who did it first had a tremendous advantage over any groups who didnt and as such would prosper while the other groups either died off or were killed by the more developed people. Food production is the single most important element in civilization advancement. After that other technologiescan be developed that involve more people than simple hunting and gathering can feed.

There are precious few animals on this earth that are fit for domestication. The cape buffalo or African buffalo is not a species fit for domestication. Even a hybrid form would be highly unlikely to produce an acceptable result. They are completely intractable.

As a percentage of all species of animals, very few have been domesticated. Many fewer plants in fact. The initial temperament of a species as a whole is a big factor in the domestication process. Further, domestication has a lot of human input. There are generations worth of selecting desirable traits for a domestic animal long before you start cherry picking traits like size, fat content, tenderness, etc. You need to make the animal a certain way first before you can really start reaping the benefits of the domestication.

In other words, it is not just a matter of crossing a buffalo with a holstein (or whatever). I have a puggle. It is a hybrid between a beagle and a pug. It is a loveable zany companion but it cant hunt, doesnt do well in heat, and has weak joints. These were traits inherited from a modern pug. Modern pugs are abominations of the dogs they once were and really call into question modern dog breeding at large. Either way, this is a product of two domesticated animals and things still did not work out great.

Besides.....these days a cow can just 'identify' as a Cape Buffalo if it wants to....right?

No need for actual cross breeding.

Would DNA implants produce an offspring? It would be nice to transfer the gentle, curious, and friendly Brown Swiss cow features with a Cape Buffalo.