Why I'm not a hunter

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DrDeFab said:
....and I don't spend much time in the woods. (FWIW, I work in the city, and live in the outer suburbs.)
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From my personal perspective (and from that perspective alone) the best thing about hunting is to have a good reason and a purpose to be in the woods.

I've put down animals with a gun before, I've butchered more than I like to recall, and I've found animals in the wilderness on many occasions. But as for being a hunter and killing an animal that I'm actually pursuing (barring one rabbit), I've yet to accomplish that. I jumped through all the hoops and read all the laws precisely to give me a good excuse to be out there in the wilderness, wandering around and scouting for potential hunting areas. Then I got interested in tracking too.

And again (solely from my perspective) if you aren't drawn to the woods and aren't interested in the life there, if you don't want to learn to dress and butcher your own game and you don't need the meat, I'm not sure what the point would be other than killing an animal, and also knowing that you could do it again.

It's perfectly fine with me if people don't want to hunt, for whatever reasons they have. But if you want to know you could do it if you needed to, you don't need to learn any laws or jump through any hoops for that. You just need to learn how to find game in the woods, and practice doing it without scaring them off. And independently from that, learn to shoot with reasonable accuracy from field positions. Then if A ever needs to meet B to put food on the table, you can already do both.
 
I used to hunt when I lived in Montana and Alaska and loved the experiences. Living in Texas and not really having access to land, hunting is an expense I’ll avoid.

But I enjoyed hunting for much the same reason I enjoy shooting, golf, fishing, and other activities, for the fellowship it provides with like minded folks.

I never really enjoyed doing any of the above alone. I’ve done all by myself and never had as much fun as when I was with family or friends. Guess that’s just me.
 
DrDeFab said:
Prologue: I was reading some other threads in the Hunting section, which I don't often do, and it started me thinking about the topic. So I thought I would post here, and see if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions.

First, it's not that I have anything against hunting, and it's not that I am uninterested.

...but...

It's never been a priority. I won't claim "I never had the time", or give you a bunch of sad stories, but like a lot of folks, I have had to make choices on where to spend my time and money.

I haven't had any friends or family that hunt. Well, my father did as a youth, in depression-era Appalachia. This was for subsistence - mostly squirrel and rabbit with a .22. He quit before I was born, because he associated it with being poor.

I don't run into a lot of hunters at work, that I know of anyway, because discussing it could get me reported for "creating a hostile workspace." (It's not a bad place to work, but times being what they are...) Those I do know, I don't know well enough to invite myself along.

The barrier to entry - at least the perceived barrier to entry - is too high. I don't want to have to figure out the laws, (where and when, with which gear, what paperwork is required, etc.) I have a couple of appropriate rifles for deer, but I don't know the difference between what other gear I really need vs. what Cabela's is marketing to clueless noobs. No idea about the logistics of field dressing or finding a butcher. See the previous points, where if I had someone to show me the ropes it probably wouldn't be an issue.

I'm not a complete couch-potato, but I am not as young as I used to be, I have a desk job, and I don't spend much time in the woods. (FWIW, I work in the city, and live in the outer suburbs.)

I have no interest in a luxury hunting trip, where I pay to sit in comfort and shoot nearly tame animals over bait at short range. Sorry, I guess that sounds judgmental, I just don't see the point.

...so...

While I consider hunting a valuable skill I would like to learn, the clock is ticking and I just don't see it happening. I get the feeling there are a lot of folks in this same boat, but that could easily be selection bias.

If you've read this far, thanks for letting me ramble! Feedback welcome.
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I wish I hunted, but health doesn’t allow it.

In SoCal, it was so hard to find deer that weren’t hiding inside park grounds or prison property (they know where it is safe, and the system of tags and lotteries so complicated, that I never bothered. My hunter friends would sometimes go a whole season in LA without a shooting a single deer. I tried to find the pigs that everyone talks about in the river bottoms, but no luck.

Now I’m in NCentral Florida, surrounded by shootable animals. But health is too low to hunt.

So, I hereby admit that, to join in the fun, I poached a squirrel in my backyard. After cleaning it, I was too disgusted to eat for a couple of hours, but when I finally cooked that lthing, it was up there with the best meat I’ve ever had (at least as far as lean meat goes).

Don’t you think that we are moving into a golden age of hunting? It seems like there are more deer every year, and the kids I see growing up these days don’t look like they’re going to be spending much time in the woods
 
I grew up reading Outdoor Life, Field & Stream, Sports Afield and every other hunting magazine I could lay my hands on. My dad never owned anything but a SxS shotgun that he liberated from Germany during WW-2 that he mailed home. He would hunt occasionally, but for him it wasn't a priority.

It became a passion for me. Fortunately there is lots of public land so I didn't have problems finding a place to hunt. I've killed my share of game over the years, although not as much as some. For me hunting was always more important than killing. I've let a lot of stuff walk for various reasons, but I've taken deer, bear and turkey as far as big game goes. Squirrel, dove, rabbit as well as waterfowl. Taken coyote and fox as predators.

At this point in my life (63) I'm even more selective. I still spend as much time in the woods, (actually more) than ever. But I find hunting now is just an excuse to go for a walk in the woods. I'd like to take a deer each year for the meat, but after that wouldn't shoot anything other than a really big buck. The rest can walk. I've taken one black bear, don't regret it, but wouldn't shoot another unless it were self defense.

About the only thing I really want right now is an elk. That's a reasonable, obtainable goal. It involves traveling 1500 miles one way and a lot of expense. But is still reasonable compared to other game like moose, brown bear or grizzly.
 
Rembrandt said:
the skill set is something everyone should experience at least once in their lifetime....if only to have an appreciation or knowledge of how it's done. Whether you are successful filling a tag or not the real enjoyment comes from testing your wits and skill against that of game that has better eye sight, smell, and hearing ability. The freshness of the air in your lungs, the physical exertion required to compete with an animal that can travel six times faster than you.
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This reminded me of the first time I went after antelope a couple years ago. We spent 4 hours or more stalking a herd of antelope. When we first spotted them, they were on a ridge across the valley from us (at least a mile and a half away). It was nerve racking at times because we didn't know if they would turn away when we weren't able to see them due to the hills between us. It was exhilarating every time we would catch sight of them, and they were still heading in the same general direction, and we were that much closer to them. In the end, we got within about 200 yrds and were watching them when they got spooked and scattered to the 4 winds. I was disappointed at not getting a shot off on them, but it was nothing compared to the excitement and exhilaration of stalking them to that point.
 
I can relate. I started hunting in my 40's and I was fortunate to make friends with hunters, so they helped me get started. So I know what it feels like to have the clock ticking on you, while feeling like you're missing out on something very important.

My suggestion is to first start watching youtube videos on how to hunt and how to field dress animals. Then pay to hunt on a ranch or with a guide. This would be the quickest way to get out in the field. Soak up the knowledge, and look for other hunting opportunities on private and public lands. The folks here are a wealth of knowledge on gear, regulations, hunting areas, traveling and just about anything to do with hunting.

The learning curve is steep, but it is worth it in my opinion. For me, the biggest eye openers were shooting, physical fitness and the meat. Shooting in the field is nothing like shooting off a bench. And spot and stalk hunting and packing out meat requires some level physical fitness. The meat can be excellent and beyond what you can get at the supermarket.

Even if you don't become an avid hunter, the knowledge you gain by attempting is valuable.
 
In Texas it seems to have become a rich mans sport. Less than 10% of land here is publically owned. A deer lease can run you anywhere from $1,000 a year and up with most being much higher than that. Feeders can run several hundred dollars, stands can get into the thousands, add in corn and protein costs and just feeding the deer can be hundreds of dollars per year. I'm lucky enough to know a landowner that lets me hunt his property for a day rate and I usually get at least a doe to fill the freezer every year. I looked into buying my own land and thats not cheap either.
 
pairof44sp said:
My hunter friends would sometimes go a whole season in LA without a shooting a single deer.
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pairof44sp said:
Don’t you think that we are moving into a golden age of hunting? It seems like there are more deer every year,
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Sorry to hear about your health issues, but no sir - we are not moving into the "golden age of hunting" (at least not everywhere) and there are not more deer every year - again, "at least not everywhere."
You wrote how your "hunter friends would sometimes go a whole season in LA without shooting a single deer." You know what - annually, only 1 in 3 Idaho deer hunters get a deer, and except for a few fantastic seasons back in the '80s, it's been like that in Idaho as far back as I can remember.
A lot of folks (including myself) responding in that other thread about what an "average hunter" is, have pointed out that "average" depends on where you are. Back in the late '90s, the company I was working for sent me back to Maryland to attend a "Train-The-Trainer" school. Because Washington DC wasn't all that far away from the motel, and neither my wife nor I had ever been to DC, my wife flew back there with me. So every day after school, my wife and I would drive into DC to see the sights, and because we had taken a few days vacation, on the weekends we toured parts of Pennsylvania, Maryland and West Virginia.
It was fall, and it was breathtakingly beautiful! And neither of us could believe how many deer there were! It seemed like they were everywhere! On the other hand, it seemed like there were people everywhere too. My wife and I both decided we like our yearly 1 in 3 chance of getting a deer in Idaho a lot more than having the chance of getting 1 deer a day (or whatever the limit is) if we had to live back east. Besides that, because both my wife and I are hunters and we count one deer as a score for both of us, our chances of getting an Idaho mule deer are 2 out of 3 every year.:thumbup:
 
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I've hunted for many years. Mostly deer. I've killed my share but not as many as some. I've never wasted. I stopped hunting when I was around 60 years or so because I am tired of killing. Don't take that wrong. This is planet is Earth. For one to survive one must die. Be it a animal, or plant or insect, something. A tree must grow. So, a tree must die. Planet earth is self sustaining. That means planet earth gets nothing else from anywhere else to feed itself. It must depend on death to live. You don't want to kill?? That's great. But, something must die to feed you. Be it animal. Be it plant. Be it something. Something must die. If not, then you, then this planet will cease to exist.
 
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There are plenty of things I'm not interested in. Golf, soccer. skiing, etc etc. I don't sit and analyse these things and it would be the same with hunting if I wasn't interested in it. I've done a lot of hunting and over the years my hunting tastes have changed but hunting is me and always will be.
 
To the OP, if you want to get started: take an in-person hunter safety course - the instructors will be able to tell you clubs and other groups you could join to begin learning and potentially find someone to teach you the ropes. Also could join a local gun or archery club and do the same. I’m no expert, but I’ve taught what I know to two adult men who had never hunted before and both were successful (although in part because I took them to my land which I know how to hunt). There are people who want to help new hunters, you just have to find them.
 
If you don't have any more drive to do it than that, you don't need to be hunting. Those of us that do, don't do it because it's easy or convenient. Really quite the opposite. We do it because we love it. It's our connection to the natural world, our history and our truest nature as the world's apex predator.


DrDeFab said:
I have no interest in a luxury hunting trip, where I pay to sit in comfort and shoot nearly tame animals over bait at short range. Sorry, I guess that sounds judgmental, I just don't see the point.
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I don't know where you get that but I'm sure it's not your only misconception.
 
DrDeFab said:
The barrier to entry - at least the perceived barrier to entry - is too high. I don't want to have to figure out the laws, (where and when, with which gear, what paperwork is required, etc.) I have a couple of appropriate rifles for deer, but I don't know the difference between what other gear I really need vs. what Cabela's is marketing to clueless noobs. No idea about the logistics of field dressing or finding a butcher. See the previous points, where if I had someone to show me the ropes it probably wouldn't be an issue.

I'm not a complete couch-potato, but I am not as young as I used to be, I have a desk job, and I don't spend much time in the woods. (FWIW, I work in the city, and live in the outer suburbs.)

I have no interest in a luxury hunting trip, where I pay to sit in comfort and shoot nearly tame animals over bait at short range. Sorry, I guess that sounds judgmental, I just don't see the point.
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I grew up in a household that was NOT outdoorsy (dad was a Goobermint research physicist, fercryingoutloud), and scouting / outdoor Explorer experiences only scratched half the itch. It was impossible to find hunting mentors or affordable places to hunt in/around Washington DC (public land in WV/PA always seemed to have too much pressure), and so hunting was an interest of mine that was deferred for years.

When I moved to Texas, I found that most ranches that offered 'trophy hunting' also offered low-cost / low-commitment entry-level experiences. My first hunt was from a box stand on an unmanaged parcel of a larger hunting ranch - no guides, no BS, just $300 for a doe or hog, pay for what you kill, they skin and quarter the critter for you. That first hunt allowed me to get some experience, and helped form my opinions on what I wanted to do next. From that start, I negotiated permission to still-hunt that parcel (3000 acres or so) when the ranch owner had no other paying customers. It was a great arrangement; he got income that he would have not otherwise had, and I had access to a sizable chunk of land in which to learn how to hunt. Had I let my preconceived notions of 'hunting ranches' keep me from looking further into my options, I probably never would have found another way to start.

I am certainly not as experienced a hunter as many on this forum, but I've stalked and killed the food that I fed my family, and to me that's worth the effort.
 
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Hunting can be and generally is hard work and the returns in terms of kills, can be very sketchy. The rewards often come in being “out there” in the woods or fields and the anticipation of success has its own rewards
Despite what one may think from reading these pages it’s productive, in actuality the success rate in most areas tends toward the low side. Many of the successful hunters have access to private lands or their own land and some of course do well just because they are, well, hunters. Only a select few with the skills necessary enjoy multiple or annual harvests. (IMO)
I myself was never that successful, as in your situation I’m a suburban dweller near a city and was limited to game management lands in my own state. There’s a big element of luck there.

I also traveled annually to an out of state location where large tracts of state or corporate owned lands were open but that can take years of getting to know the lay of the land, again element of luck. I even did a few trips to Canada where the hunting was “guided” that is there was one guide for every three hunters, the term guide being used loosely here.

I rarely went alone except for small game and the out of state trip were with friends. The friends and the camp camaraderie is what I recall as the best part.
So my advise is to buy the appropriate license for your state small or large game, check your states game management areas and the dress requirements and just go. Learn as you go. Some states may require hunter safety classes or at least a written exam, mine does, to obtain the license.
 
Some people are not comfortable with taking an animals life. My daughters like to shoot and are very capable of busting clays with a shotgun or plinking cans with rifle or pistol, but they don't hunt. My granddaughters are following in their mom's footsteps. Remember, you don't have to kill to have fun shooting.
 
DrDeFab said:
First, it's not that I have anything against hunting, and it's not that I am uninterested.
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With only slight changes, I could have take virtually your entire post and said the same thing about reloading. I am just not ever going to get into it, I don't believe. I am probably not ever getting into trap or duck hunting, either.

The beauty of the shooting sports is that there are so many facets to them and you can pick and choose what you want to do. You don't have to do everything.

I will say this, after I took up feral hog hunting, I got out of competition shooting. I liked the real life application better than the practice. There is NOTHING wrong with competition, but I only have so much time in my life.

jmohme said:
Feral hog hunting is not really hunting. It's more like dealing with a rat infestation. Just really big rats.
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LOL, hog hunters use all the same techniques as deer hunters. We stand hunt, spot and stalk, still hunt, use dogs, drives, hunt alone or in teams. The real difference is that we aren't as restricted by a bunch of extra laws (at least not here in Texas)...given that hogs are non-native. To say it isn't really hunting is about like a bow hunter saying rifle hunting isn't really hunting.

However, to compare it with deer hunting, it is a form of cull hunting for many of us, but it is virtually the exact same thing as deer hunting for many many hunters.

The really cool thing about feral hog hunting is that we have so many more opportunities to enjoy the hunting experience and it gives us even more...
WrongHanded said:
reason and a purpose to be in the woods.
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Highland Lofts said:
If you want to get out and try hunting I am sure some on here lives close to you and can show you the ropes. I live in Washington State, 40 miles north of Seattle and fly back to Upstate New York (half way between New York City & Buffalo about 30 miles north of Pennsylvania) to visit family and to go deer hunting for a month.
If you are in that area you are wecome to tag along and see how we go about hunting deer.
I love being out in the open hardwoods in the late fall hunting whitetails.
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@Highland Lofts, pat, this past season, with you, @troy fairweather and the rest of the crew is the best time I've had hunting in a lot of years. Silent drives, pushing woods to posted hunters takes me back to when I started. I sort quite a few years hunting alone, was successful, taking game more often than not,

To Op I'm with highland lofts, welcome to come along if your in our area. NY requires a hunter saftey course in order to obtain any licence. Some portions can be done online. There is a sticky thread or the top of this subforum hunting mentors that may be of assistance in finding someone to help you out.

1942bull said:
I did some hunting after my discharge from the Corps. It was mostly small game like rabbits, squirrels, pheasant. I believed that if your not going to eat it, do not kill it but with pests like vermin, varmints, and wild pigs being exceptions. Well I just could not ever cook the game to point where I enjoyed eating it. So I stopped hunting it. When it came to deer I still hunted. My hunting companion and I were trailing a deer. It was about 200 yards away but there was no clear and safe shot. So we continued to move in. Then a shot rang out. Some idiot about 50 yards behind us took a shot at the deer with us in between the deer and him. All I thought before the rage set in was — damn I do not want to get shot. Once in Nam was enough for me. So I double timed back to the shooter, took the bolt from his rifle and told him to pick it up at the state game lands warden’s office. I filed a complaint. The man never picked it up. I never hunted again.
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I can't blame you for that, had a buddy, VNV, who would only hunt private land alone, and would call land owner to confirm that no one else was there for similar reasons.

I've been in the woods myself, and with my brother, at different times where it sounded like a war zone. Once my brother and left the woods due to a hail of gunfire in a creek bottom at an 8 point that I'd shot, double lung, with my m1 garand. Deer went into the creek 30 rounds then 10 more, heard the guy say I shot him in the ribs.
Oh well better to walk away on that one.
 
When I was a kid we had over 200 acres nearly half was wooded pasture. If you wanted to hunt you has dad to use an old hand-me down gun and headed right out in the woods. When you were older and actually went places to hunt you bought a license put on a red jacket and borrowed a better gun. The was no such thing as trespassing signs and you knew everybody within a 2 mile radius or more much of it woods. As time went on more people bought pieces of land from family and built houses in the country. Next thing developers built houses on prime hunting land and everybody started posting what land was left. Now it's really hard to find private land to hunt on and public land is full of idiots. Yeah starting hunting is much tougher now. It's not just a walk in the woods anymore. Also if you don't have family friend or neighbors to hunt with you won't have a clue about where to start. I guess i grew up lucky at a great time and place. A few years ago I did hunt with a relatives family camping in a wilderness up North. Turns out none of them had shot a deer before so they relied on me for advice. Especially when they actually shot a deer. It was as fun helping them as shooting a deer myself.
 
CraigC said:
If you don't have any more drive to do it than that, you don't need to be hunting. Those of us that do, don't do it because it's easy or convenient. Really quite the opposite. We do it because we love it. It's our connection to the natural world, our history and our truest nature as the world's apex predator.



I don't know where you get that but I'm sure it's not your only misconception.
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Yep. There is a huge difference in just hiking through the woods and hunting them. As a hunter you are really tuned in to your surroundings and will see and experience things many non-hunters never will. Plus, if there is anything better than a fire, friends and family at hunting camp I don't know what it is.
 
DrDeFab said:
Prologue: I was reading some other threads in the Hunting section, which I don't often do, and it started me thinking about the topic. So I thought I would post here, and see if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions.

First, it's not that I have anything against hunting, and it's not that I am uninterested.

...but...

It's never been a priority. I won't claim "I never had the time", or give you a bunch of sad stories, but like a lot of folks, I have had to make choices on where to spend my time and money.

I haven't had any friends or family that hunt. Well, my father did as a youth, in depression-era Appalachia. This was for subsistence - mostly squirrel and rabbit with a .22. He quit before I was born, because he associated it with being poor.

I don't run into a lot of hunters at work, that I know of anyway, because discussing it could get me reported for "creating a hostile workspace." (It's not a bad place to work, but times being what they are...) Those I do know, I don't know well enough to invite myself along.

The barrier to entry - at least the perceived barrier to entry - is too high. I don't want to have to figure out the laws, (where and when, with which gear, what paperwork is required, etc.) I have a couple of appropriate rifles for deer, but I don't know the difference between what other gear I really need vs. what Cabela's is marketing to clueless noobs. No idea about the logistics of field dressing or finding a butcher. See the previous points, where if I had someone to show me the ropes it probably wouldn't be an issue.

I'm not a complete couch-potato, but I am not as young as I used to be, I have a desk job, and I don't spend much time in the woods. (FWIW, I work in the city, and live in the outer suburbs.)

I have no interest in a luxury hunting trip, where I pay to sit in comfort and shoot nearly tame animals over bait at short range. Sorry, I guess that sounds judgmental, I just don't see the point.

...so...

While I consider hunting a valuable skill I would like to learn, the clock is ticking and I just don't see it happening. I get the feeling there are a lot of folks in this same boat, but that could easily be selection bias.

If you've read this far, thanks for letting me ramble! Feedback welcome.
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It all sounds reasonable and logical to me. I don't hunt outside of a grocery store anymore but I used to hunt to pack the freezer every season - mostly wild pig and boar but sometimes pheasant and grouse, too. Not big on hunting deer since venison is not my favorite meat.

Now, when it comes to wild critters that have gone sick or hostile, that's another story. I don't hunt them, tho. I do object to them hunting me.

Learning to survive outside of modern civil society is a good thing. It doesn't require becoming a hunter but that is a good start.
 
jmohme said:
Feral hog hunting is not really hunting. It's more like dealing with a rat infestation. Just really big rats.
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Yup. Big, hostile, omnivorous, intelligent animals. If you don't eat them, they will eat you.

I talked to a zoologist once who said some animals get a hankering for human just like we get a hankering for beef or fish. We were talking about sharks at the time and he said most sharks would prefer not to catch a human - we don't smell or bite right to them - but we eventually got onto bears and pigs and big cats and he said some varieties of pigs actually are cannibalistic and mistake humans - long pig - for their own and get a hunger for us, just like we get a hunger for them. Big cats typically just consider us big mice that are fun to play with but not a good meal.

Some folks you just shouldn't start up a conversation with. :(
 
.308 Norma said:
No man, that depends on where you live. I've said it before - nearly 2/3rds of the state of Idaho is public land. That's 34.5 million acres of public land, and as of April, 2019, only 208,000 acres (less than 1%) of that 34.5 million acres of public land was inaccessible. Idaho hunters who restrict themselves to only hunting private land (if there are any) are handicapping themselves severely.
But as far as the OP, DrDeFab's feelings about hunting goes, that's entirely up to him or her. I was born into, and grew up in a hunting family. But my wife (of 50 years come June) had never even touched a gun, much less gone hunting before she married me. That changed the following year after I got out of the Navy and she followed me home to Idaho.
So naturally our kids (both girls), and now our grandkids (all 4 boys) were born and raised in hunting families too. And as I posted last year, our oldest daughter re-married last June (her first husband passed away 7 years back), and took her new husband deer hunting for the first time in his life last fall. He was already into guns (ARs and semi-auto handguns and such) though before he married our daughter. He just wasn't into hunting. But a couple of months back he brought his brand new Tikka 6.5 Creed out to the house to show us. He's hoping to kill his first deer with it this fall.
BTW, our youngest daughter doesn't hunt, which seeing as how she's a wheel with one of the nation's largest hunting and conservation organizations is kind of an enigma. But she doesn't have anything against hunting, and she likes wild game meat when someone gives her some. It's just that she is too tender-hearted to kill an animal herself. My wife and I don't know where we went wrong with that girl! Just kidding.;)
Hunting isn't for everybody. I know a lot of folks that don't hunt, and I don't ask them why not. As long as they don't mind that me and mine are hunters, we'll get along fine.:)
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If everybody moved to Idaho to take advantage of the aspects you treasure most about that state, it would stop being what you treasure and become what you despise VERY quickly.

Trust me. As a native Floridian, I know!
 
I'm not a hunter either, if I had a friend that hunted that lived nearby, I would go with them. One of my wife's sisters was a hunter he went with his dogs, I think he got one deer in 20 years, I believe did it to get out in the woods. My grandfather hunted turkeys. I do fish from time to time, not often enough.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
If everybody moved to Idaho to take advantage of the aspects you treasure most about that state, it would stop being what you treasure and become what you despise VERY quickly.

Trust me. As a native Floridian, I know!
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Yes sir, sadly I know that too. The Boise Valley (where I grew up) in western Idaho is already full of people, and this part of the state is filling up real fast. I'm 73, so I won't be around long enough to experience having to have a "hunting lease" or something like that to go hunting. But I figure my wife's and my grandchildren (all young men now) are part of the last generation of Idahoans that grew up not having to pay just so they could hunt private land.:(
 
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