RE: the .280/7mm...

Garandimal said:

What happened?

The outstanding .280 Rem. has all but disappeared.

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The short version of what happen is, wait for it, Remington. They didn't promote the cartridge anywhere as well as they should have, changed cartridge designation, name, and introduced the rem mag, which got better advertising than other Remington 7mm caliber.
McGowan males 280 barrels with an 8 twist, as well as 9 twist.

I had a pre 64 Model 70 this past year with a highly used barrel that I wanted to re-barrel so I went through the process of deciding whether to get a 280 Ackley or a 280 Remington. I didn't want a 270 because I already have two of those. The money did the talking and I for about 1/3 of what It would cost for the Ackley I bought a 280 Remington barrel and had it installed. The project came out really good. The rifle has a 22 inch featherweight barrel with a 1:10 twist that I use for 140 and 150 grain bullets. It has a free floated barrel, bedded recoil lug, Timney trigger, Decelerator pad and Leupold M3 scope. Total weight with scope and sling is 8 pounds 7 ounces. I may change the sling swivel bases to cups as some point in the future.

Winchester still sells the 280 Remington in their Super Grade model so the cartridge is far from dead. That being said it is an "old man's rifle" which works with me. I didn't have any problems finding dies and brass. The Big Green ammo plant is up and running again so that will help.

I'm having a 280AI built off a 1903 action in a 1/8 twist I went with the AI version because I have had really good luck with all my other AI builds. I was thinking that the 280 existed as a wildcat before Remington came out with it in the mid 50s? I think the acceptance of the 280AI by SAAMI and all the company's that are now producing it has probably hurt it some.

Garandimal said:

While, to me, the biggest selling point for the .280 Rem. (or 7mm-08), over the .270 Win., was the 175 gr. bullet capability...

... and the factory 1:9.5 twist removes it.




GR

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That I suppose would depend on the rifle, I wouldn't rule out 175 gr in a 1:9 twist barrel CO sobering that 1:10 twist 40 cal barrels stabilize bullets up to 220 gr. Iirc 24 hour campfire had a thread on this so topic and 160 to 175 stabilized in his rifle.

Garandimal said:

While, to me, the biggest selling point for the .280 Rem. (or 7mm-08), over the .270 Win., was the 175 gr. bullet capability...

... and the factory 1:9.5 twist removes it.




GR

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You can shoot non-VLD type 175s out of 1 and 9.5. My 7mag Abolt 2 was a 9.5, and while It was never fantastically accurate with the bullets I wanted to shoot in it, It shot the 175 SGKs really well.


I think competition between the 270 Jack, and 30-06 Keith, coupled with Remington's poor marketing, really lead to the lesser popularity of 280/7 mm express.
Having not been around for any of that it's really just conjecture on my part.
The 280 is far less well known locally than either the 270 or 30-06, most knowledgeable local hunters and shooters often aren't familiar with the 280.

And to be fair The 280 or 280 AI are available for most of the major manufacturers and either current production, or fairly common limited-run guns.

Given the choice between the 280 Remington and the 280 AI, I would always choose the AI version. Especially if looking at shooting bullets over 160class, personally I think that's about the limit of what I want to use in that capacity case.

I've had a couple of 280's over the years and like the round. But there isn't anything magical about it. It always was, and always will be a niche round for guys just wanting something a little different. If I were inclined to put together a custom rig a 280 AI and a barrel twisted a little faster is the way I'd go. But in the real world it doesn't do anything I can't do with a 270 or 30-06. Or for that matter a 7-08 or 308.

You should be able to shoot 175's in a 9.5 twist, especially hunting bullets. According to Berger's stability calculator even their 190 and 195 gr bullets are considered marginal. That means they still work and should be accurate. But the stated BC won't be accurate with that twist rate.

My X-Bolt shoots sub 1/2” with Berger 168’s. Have no idea what twist. I had them on hand, had a chance to shoot, so that’s what I used. It worked.

7 Rem Mag

I haven't tested it for the twist ratio (and I'm curious to what it is) but my Ruger MKII RS rifle, chambered in 7x64 Brenneke, groups 175 grain bullets very snuggly.

This Winchester M70 CRF in 7mm Mag has a 4 groove Krieger 26 inch barrel. The longest bullet I shoot is a 175 grain Hornady ELD-X at about 3000 fps.




I bought a bunch of the 175 ELD-X’s when Midway was selling them in bulk, discontinued, about 4 years ago. Here is a load work up sheet from 2018. Obviously my rifle likes them.

View attachment 993059

Garandimal said:

Alas, the 7mm/160 gr. just gets me back to the .277/150 gr., w/ better factory rifle and ammo support, and shorter length Bbl. performance.




GR

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What advantages do the 175s .284s offer over a 160 .277?

Keh, yeah the SD on those 175 7mm pretty bloody high.

Oh I emailed Winchester about the 1-10 twist rate they list for the 280 Remington. Both the 7-08 and 7mm Remington Magnum are twisted at 9.5, So running a 10 twist on the 280 just seems impractical to me, and I wonder if whoever was cutting the spec sheet mixed up the 280 and 270....

One thing I noticed when I looked at Nosler's ballistics for the 280 AI was that the barrel length was 26 inches. My 280 Remington has a 22 inch barrel, weighs 8 1/2 pounds and has a really sharp jump with full power loads. My rifle will work as a lightweight mountain rifle but I was smart not to get the AI version because I wanted to enjoy shooting the rifle. It seems to me that someone who wants to use 175 grain bullets with the AI at full power is looking at a long barreled rifle that weighs at least 9 1/2 pounds. The heavy weight makes it a long distance rifle but takes it out of the mountain rifle easy to carry category. I'm not talking down long range rifles I just want to make the point.

sage5907 said:

Winchester still sells the 280 Remington in their Super Grade model so the cartridge is far from dead.

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It's not "far from dead". Its on life support. With a couple rifles being its cord.

The shame was in Remingtons failure of how to name it. I personally love the .280 Remington and Ackley Improved even more so. But it's not like new buyers are out to get these.

sage5907 said:

One thing I noticed when I looked at Nosler's ballistics for the 280 AI was that the barrel length was 26 inches. My 280 Remington has a 22 inch barrel, weighs 8 1/2 pounds and has a really sharp jump with full power loads. My rifle will work as a lightweight mountain rifle but I was smart not to get the AI version because I wanted to enjoy shooting the rifle. It seems to me that someone who wants to use 175 grain bullets with the AI at full power is looking at a long barreled rifle that weighs at least 9 1/2 pounds. The heavy weight makes it a long distance rifle but takes it out of the mountain rifle easy to carry category. I'm not talking down long range rifles I just want to make the point.

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My Ridgeline weights 8.75lbs with a moderately heavy scope on it. It does jump around when running 162s at 3050, and 150s at 3110, but its not uncomfortable.
you can see the gun jump in this video....the guy shooting has never fired that rifle before, and never shot at anything near that distance......I also called hit because I thought it skipped off the side of the rock, but after watching the video a few times im 99% sure he actually missed a foot or so right.



Im not sure how much more recoil the 175s would transmit, tho im likely to find out soon, as im going to try load some of the 180RDFs in my 280 for the next outing.

current producers of 280/280AIs
Winchester
Browning
Savage
Kimber
Christensen
Bergara

Factory custom guns
Ruger (distributor exclusive, so lets call it a custom)
Nosler
ErShaw
Cooper

im probably missing a few, but those are the ones i could find easily....and remember.

LoonWulf said:

Im not sure how much more recoil the 175s would transmit, tho im likely to find out soon, as im going to try load some of the 180RDFs in my 280 for the next outing.

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That's a very interesting video and a good video. The video actually shows the torque on the rifle as the bullet twists out of the barrel. It also shows the speed of the bullet which is great. I looked at the specifications of the rifle and it shows a 26 inch barrel with a muzzle break. I wonder what the video would look like without the muzzle break.

sage5907 said:

That's a very interesting video and a good video. The video actually shows the torque on the rifle as the bullet twists out of the barrel. It also shows the speed of the bullet which is great. I looked at the specifications of the rifle and it shows a 26 inch barrel with a muzzle break. I wonder what the video would look like without the muzzle break.

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Its actually 26" before the brake.
The video is shot sans brake, as we were hunting in a group and the last thing I needed to do to a bunch of guys who had never hunted before was catch them in brake blast lol.