My Astra boarders on downright unpleasant to shoot. It pounds the web of your hand with every shot. I think the grip angle in relation to the bore axis is partially to blame. There is a lot of muzzle flip. My 600 is almost as bad.
The P7 is an amazing pistol.
It was smooth and accurate to shoot but I did not feel comfortable with the squeeze cocker which, if you were taught to take a firing grip in the holster, led to a cocked gun in the holster.
I never dumped enough magazines in a hurry to be bothered by heating over the gas cylinder in spite of hearing of it.
I suspect the same lessons we're kept in mind when S&W did the Shield EZ line, which is how they get away with the minimal recoil spring; they run a hugely long dwell time to take out all the energy they can in initial extraction.
The breech is opened by recoil, not by pressure.If the breached remaind locked for just a little longer than required for the bullet to exit the barrel, would that allow a little more pressure to be released before opening and have less 'force' remaining to open the slide?
.The breech is opened by recoil, not by pressure.
The recoil moves the slide/barrel combination to the rear together initially. They have to move together because they are locked together. As the combination moves to the rear, it reaches the point where the travel unlocks the barrel from the slide. That is done by a number of methods, a link, an inclined plane, a rotating barrel, etc. But the point is that pressure doesn't force the two apart, it's the movement of the combination to the rear that does it. You can see this is true by running the slide by hand--there's no pressure in the chamber, but still at some point in the travel, the barrel unlocks from the slide.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that there's no pressure at the unlocking point in a Browing inspired recoil operated locked breech design, I'm just saying that the pressure isn't what causes the unlocking. The unlocking is caused by the movement of the slide/barrel combination in recoil.No doubt in some mechanisms, such as long recoil mechanisms, pressure is zero when the breech is unlocked.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that there's no pressure at the unlocking point in a Browing inspired recoil operated locked breech design, I'm just saying that the pressure isn't what causes the unlocking. The unlocking is caused by the movement of the slide/barrel combination in recoil.
The breech is opened by recoil, not by pressure.
The recoil moves the slide/barrel combination to the rear together initially.
In the blowback section LTC Chin shows that blowback, retarded blowback, gas operated mechanisms are designed to unlock when pressures are less than 650 psia or close to that.
When Mr Pedersen designed the Remington PA51 around Mr Browning's Colt patents, he established the unlocked travel of the internal breechblock at 0.18". Which is the thickness of the .380 case head.
The breech is opened by recoil, not by pressure.
I make a lot of assumptions and that can lead to confusion. I understood that the recoil motion opened the breach. And I assumed that the timing of opening was just as the bullet existed the barrel when the pressure had not returned to zero. My question was if the opening was delayed for a little longer after the bullet exited the barrel if the pressure would drop enough to not require as strong of a return spring or increased mass of the slide. I wonder if this is the principle of the S&W EZ systems?
Correct. As soon as the bullet starts moving, so does the slide/barrel combination. Newton's laws demand it.You know, the slide and barrel are actually moving before the bullet is out of the barrel.
I believe that you are correct that there is some residual pressure in the barrel at unlock. The design insures that it's not enough to cause any problems by the time the case is actually beginning to be extracted from the chamber to any significant extent....that the 1911 does open up when there is residual pressure in the barrel, and the pressure at unlock does affect slide velocity.
The pressure in the barrel/chamber drops extremely fast once the bullet exits because there's nothing to hold it in place any longer once the bullet isn't plugging the barrel. Delaying the opening any more than is required to allow the bullet to exit doesn't buy you anything. The slide velocity is determined by the momentum of the ejecta--the pressure doesn't have anything to do with it.My question was if the opening was delayed for a little longer after the bullet exited the barrel if the pressure would drop enough to not require as strong of a return spring or increased mass of the slide.
ARs are operated by gas tapped from the barrel, not by recoil or blowback. Silencers keep the pressure higher longer and therefore change the amount/pressure of the gas that is tapped off to drive the bolt rearward and unlock the action.The silencer holds a volume of gas and releases it slowly. I forget exactly what their silencers are doing to their rifles, but it changes things.
The pressure in the barrel/chamber drops extremely fast once the bullet exits because there's nothing to hold it in place any longer once the bullet isn't plugging the barrel. Delaying the opening any more than is required to allow the bullet to exit doesn't buy you anything. The slide velocity is determined by the momentum of the ejecta--the pressure doesn't have anything to do with it.
.The pressure in the barrel/chamber drops extremely fast once the bullet exits because there's nothing to hold it in place any longer once the bullet isn't plugging the barrel. Delaying the opening any more than is required to allow the bullet to exit doesn't buy you anything. The slide velocity is determined by the momentum of the ejecta--the pressure doesn't have anything to do with it.ARs are operated by gas tapped from the barrel, not by recoil or blowback.
Correct. As soon as the bullet starts moving, so does the slide/barrel combination. Newton's laws demand it.I believe that you are correct that there is some residual pressure in the barrel at unlock. The design insures that it's not enough to cause any problems by the time the case is actually beginning to be extracted from the chamber to any significant extent.
However, slide velocity at the point that the bullet exits the muzzle is determined completely by the momentum of the ejecta (the mass velocity product of everything that comes out of the muzzle). It is not affected by pressure at unlock.The pressure in the barrel/chamber drops extremely fast once the bullet exits because there's nothing to hold it in place any longer once the bullet isn't plugging the barrel. Delaying the opening any more than is required to allow the bullet to exit doesn't buy you anything. The slide velocity is determined by the momentum of the ejecta--the pressure doesn't have anything to do with it.ARs are operated by gas tapped from the barrel, not by recoil or blowback. Silencers keep the pressure higher longer and therefore change the amount/pressure of the gas that is tapped off to drive the bolt rearward and unlock the action.
I'm pretty sure the slides remained unchanged, but frame was was beefed up. Even so, it would not be enough where the slide was whacking them, so at least on the Beretta 84 the recoil spring was also made narrower. That permitted to make the opening smaller and add some aluminum there. This way the slide did not land right at the edge anymore, and mushrooming was reduced or eliminated. I am not intimately familiar with Tomcat, however.The Beretta 81 to 81BB and the Beretta Tomcat. The word was that the Tomcats slide was widened and made heavier due to the preceding lighter slide slamming (accelerating?) into the frame hard enough to crack that frame.
I can think of a couple of possibilities.But, based on my experiences with my 1911's during load development with Bullseye, Unique, and Blue Dot, its is evident that the slower burning powders cause a hard ejection with a long ejection distance. So, I interpret this as residual pressure in the barrel accelerating cartridge ejection, if not, adding acceleration to the slide. I don't have pressure gauges, but I do have a chronograph, and if the velocity is equivalent, and I tailor my 230 grain loads to 800 fps in a 5 inch 1911, then what else is going on, other than a slow pressure drop with slow powders?
I'm pretty sure the slides remained unchanged, but frame was was beefed up. Even so, it would not be enough where the slide was whacking them, so at least on the Beretta 84 the recoil spring was also made narrower. That permitted to make the opening smaller and add some aluminum there. This way the slide did not land right at the edge anymore, and mushrooming was reduced or eliminated. I am not intimately familiar with Tomcat, however.