Shot a 454 Casull for the first time today~

ms6852 said:

This is why I wonder why some people are always asking for "The Best Gun" for bear country. My experience have shown me a few people that I know that have bought the 454 or 500 Smith and Wesson or the in between calibers shoot the gun a couple of times, and than end up selling for two main reasons. First is the recoil and secondly not able to shoot it accurately because of the recoil. Those that keep the gun never shoot it enough to acquire a smidgeon of proficiency because of the recoil. Funny how recoil differs from on caliber to the next but my little puny .357 with the 3" barrel when I shoot it I can only tolerate a box of 50 rounds without a glove after that the glove come on. With the 44 magnum it is more of a push where the .357 to me feels like a few hundred pin needles in my hand.

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If and I repeat “if” you want the handgun with the highest possibility of stopping a large, aggressive carnivore....you are best served with the largest caliber, firing the heaviest practical, non-expandin, wide metplat bullet. However, the caveat in this scenario is, to make the handgun recoil tolerable for the novice or physically restricted (hand/wrist issues) shooter....the handgun will be heavy and very noisy (muzzle brake).Weight is pretty much a non issue, as it will/should be in a good carry rig.....and will be lighter and less burdensome than carrying most rifles. Noise, because of the brake, a non issue when practicing (proper ear protection), and in a life or death situation ....worth the hearing risk/discomfort (IMO)!

My wife, who shoots handguns very little, had no issues shooting my 460 S&W through a full cylinder. However, these were the little 200 grain Hornady bullets.....not the best as a stopping bullet for a large carnivore! I’m sure she could handle, though not enjoy, shooting my 400 grain, cast bullets @ 1500 fps mv. From a recoil induced pain standpoint, my 460 is far less painful to shoot than my S&W 629 (44 mag) shooting heavy, max-load bullets. But, you have greater weight and noise!

Most everything in life comes in some form of compromise. For pure carry comfort, low recoil, low noise, a 22 RF is great....not considered a great “stopping cartridge”! Going the other way, you get weight, high recoil, high noise ....and much increased stopping ability!

To respond to a previous post, IMO ..... overkill is not possible with a hand carry firearm. Perhaps, more than necessary for most game.....but, not overkill! Speaking only of the 460 S&W, it affords the handgun hunter greater useable range through it’s higher velocities.

Contact me when you know of someone wanting to sell a 5” 460 XVR because of aforementioned issues.....I’d like a shorter, more practical XVR for casual carry! memtb

Back in the hay day of I.H.M.S.A. It was a show stopper to see shooters shoot 80 + rounds in a match

mrt949 said:

I Was A RECOIL JUNKIE .Now I AM A RETIRED 22 .JUNKIE

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Yes.
Shot a cylinder full through one of the Rugers. At 25ft. first 2 were touching, then the spread increased 'til it was over.
Lotta' horsepower there.

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Slamfire said:

A Bullseye Pistol bud, who feeds his gun habit by working at a local gun store, collects all the big booming handguns. And I mean all. He claims that of all of his collection the 454 Casull has the worst recoil impulse.

I have a number of 44 Magnums, and am not looking for more recoil. When I shoot my 44 Magnum, it is the last pistol of the day, and my hands are beat, and my flinch is uncontrollable after a box of 50 rounds, Probably have the uncontrollable flinch about 18 rounds in, hard to say when it starts, but it is sure noticeable the more rounds go downrange.

I cannot imagine shooting 50 rounds of full bore 454 Casull. Will it cause nerve damage to the wrists?

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I have had or shot a 500L, 500JRH, 510GNR, a 500 Wyoming Express, a 460, a 475L, a 480, a 455 GNR and a 454. I have to agree - the 454 is the worst.

I won't shoot the 454 out of anything but an X-frame, and I'm a recoil junkie. That's alot of energy out of a conventional framed revolver.

Slamfire said:

He claims that of all of his collection the 454 Casull has the worst recoil impulse.

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Even out of this 4" 460S&W, (it actually has a 1" comp and a 4" bbl, so S&W calls it a 5") the mass of that X-frame revolver mitigates the recoil enough to make it tolerable for me, even without the comp and extra spicy loads.

cfullgraf said:

I'd hate to try a 4" 460 S&W Mag revolver.

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ms6852 said:

This is why I wonder why some people are always asking for "The Best Gun" for bear country. My experience have shown me a few people that I know that have bought the 454 or 500 Smith and Wesson or the in between calibers shoot the gun a couple of times, and than end up selling for two main reasons. First is the recoil and secondly not able to shoot it accurately because of the recoil. Those that keep the gun never shoot it enough to acquire a smidgeon of proficiency because of the recoil. Funny how recoil differs from on caliber to the next but my little puny .357 with the 3" barrel when I shoot it I can only tolerate a box of 50 rounds without a glove after that the glove come on. With the 44 magnum it is more of a push where the .357 to me feels like a few hundred pin needles in my hand.

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I have a S&W stainless mountain gun in .41 magnum to pack when fishing in bear country when I'm feeling a bit wimpy about packing that heavy Ruger SRH in .454.

Well I would not shoot one of these with a handgun, or any side arm I know of. I would leave it alone



and I would not let the kids play with it!



At some level of monster, get a cannon.

I haven't shot a .454 but I rented a .500 S+W at the range one time just for the heck of it.
I was actually surprised recoil was not as bad as I expected. (heavy gun and muzzle brake)
Yes it gets your attention when you set one off but I have shot .44s that were less pleasant to shoot.
Shot 20 of the 25 round box and let some other people on the range shoot 1. (range ok'd other shooters with their gun)

I keep having this nagging thought about buying a .460 but I can't come up with any reason other than just for the He!! of it. (which I suppose is as good a reason as any)

Dudedog said:

I haven't shot a .454 but I rented a .500 S+W at the range one time just for the heck of it.
I was actually surprised recoil was not as bad as I expected. (heavy gun and muzzle brake)
Yes it gets your attention when you set one off but I have shot .44s that were less pleasant to shot.
Shot 20 of the 25 round box and let some other people on the range shot 1. (range ok'd other shooters with their gun)

I keep having this nagging thought about buying a .460 but I can't come up with any reason other than just for the He!! of it. (which I suppose is as good a reason as any)

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If you don’t have an aversion about the weight and muzzle blast.....go for it! My only regret is “not” shooting it more! memtb

PapaG said:

On the other hand, I'm getting tired of magazines calling him the father of the 357. That honor should go to Phil Sharpe. Keith gets the 44 mag credit.

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I've argued with people until I was blue in the face about Phil Sharpe and the .357. People who've done no leg work and only repeat something they heard somewhere. Keith shouldn't really get the .44Mag credit either. He lobbied for the industry to adopt his heavy .44Spl load. S&W and Remington developed the .44Mag behind closed doors. Myths and legends die hard.

It was also Charlie O`Neal that designed the famous .44 "Keith bullet".

Anchorite said:

I have had or shot a 500L, 500JRH, 510GNR, a 500 Wyoming Express, a 460, a 475L, a 480, a 455 GNR and a 454. I have to agree - the 454 is the worst.

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That seems to be pretty universal.

I'm sitting here trying to think of the name of the writer who waited until Keith was dead to claim the "fatherhood" of the 44 mag. Used 30-40 Krag cases cut down, neck reamed and so on. Aha! John Lachuk.
I think that most legitimized wildcats have more than one "daddy". I was playing with a 38-45 when I was in high school using several dies to form a cool looking necked case. I wasn't the first and didn't even try to get a barrel made. I made 45 shotshells from 308 brass using several dies to step them down. Then fouind out that RCBS or someone already had dies.
I'll never achieve cult status for design but I have a pretty good memory and a lot of experience in a lot of shooting sports.
Thanks, Craig. I can count on you to have the bottom line on the BIG ones.

Lachuk was a real wildcatter, one of the ".44 Associates". Keith was really just an experimenter. It was definitely his prodding that inspired the .44Mag but as far as the actual development of the cartridge, he wasn't involved. While Keith was experimenting with heavy .38Spl loads in the .38-44 Heavy Duty, Phil Sharpe and Douglas Wesson were developing the .357Mag. Gordon Boser was another who had a .40 caliber wildcat long before anyone else did. If I remember right, it was the basis or at least the inspiration for Colt's experimental .400 magnum that never saw production.

Dick Casull was on another level entirely. He played the part of experimenter, wildcatter, ballistician and gunsmith. He has always been underrated for his prowess as a master gunsmith.

I really want a 454 super redhawk with 7.5" or 9.5" barrel, stainless. Im buying the first one i see.

PapaG said:

I'm sitting here trying to think of the name of the writer who waited until Keith was dead to claim the "fatherhood" of the 44 mag. Used 30-40 Krag cases cut down, neck reamed and so on. Aha! John Lachuk.
I think that most legitimized wildcats have more than one "daddy". I was playing with a 38-45 when I was in high school using several dies to form a cool looking necked case. I wasn't the first and didn't even try to get a barrel made. I made 45 shotshells from 308 brass using several dies to step them down. Then fouind out that RCBS or someone already had dies.
I'll never achieve cult status for design but I have a pretty good memory and a lot of experience in a lot of shooting sports.
Thanks, Craig. I can count on you to have the bottom line on the BIG ones.

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Here's two good articles on the subject.

https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/revolvers/dear-handgunner/

http://www.sixguns.com/range/Mademag.htm

Thanks, Craig. I have both of those somewhere in my archives along with Sixguns, Hell, I was There, Sharpes reloading, Hatcher's notebook, Greener's Gun and...along with some more esoteric stuff like FWMann's Bullet's flight, and on and on. Nice to read t hem again.

Me too, I just often forget where to find the stuff. There's really not a lot out there about Lachuk that isn't rimfire related.

I've been shooting the big ones for a long time. They are fun.

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Thinking about trading this one in though for a new Anaconda though.

GBExpat said:

Beefy, long-barrel revolvers using Duplex and even Triplex loads to maximize velocity/power. WHEW! Heady & fascinating stuff.

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I'd like to hear more on that. Do you have a reference?

I assume this is a starter charge of fast powder to get rolling, under a larger charge of very slow powder to keep it accelerating for the length of it's dwell time?

edwardware said:

I'd like to hear more on that. Do you have a reference? ...

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No, sorry.

I probably read about it in a firearms periodical like Guns & Ammo.

Dudedog said:

I haven't shot a .454 but I rented a .500 S+W at the range one time just for the heck of it.
I was actually surprised recoil was not as bad as I expected. (heavy gun and muzzle brake)
Yes it gets your attention when you set one off but I have shot .44s that were less pleasant to shoot.
Shot 20 of the 25 round box and let some other people on the range shoot 1. (range ok'd other shooters with their gun)

I keep having this nagging thought about buying a .460 but I can't come up with any reason other than just for the He!! of it. (which I suppose is as good a reason as any)

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If you rent one again try out the 500 gr hard cast rounds with it. Those will wake you up and if you don’t have a good handle on the gun they can hurt your hand pretty quick. I have a 454 Ruger Alaskan as well which is a lot of fun but the 500 S&W hands down has a bigger recoil.

Back in the day when Freedom Arms was the only one selling a revolver in 454 Casull, I got to shoot one that belonged to a friend. At one hundred yards, off the bench, I hit dead center on a 12” Bull. I fired all five rounds and my group got bigger with each shot. I ended up with a 9 or 10” group. After shooting I checked to see if the heels were still attached to my boots. I’ve never been a fan of heavy recoil and never fired a 454 again.

I've got a FA in Premier grade, what a beautiful gun. I load it down to powder puff loads (arthritis) My hands hurt just thinking about hot loads.

I have a stainless SRH with a 7.5" barrel. I use light loads in it for target practice. Trail Boss powder that fills the case after the 255 grain LSWC bullet is seated. I like using a powder that fills the case since double-charges are then impossible. Never chronographed the load, but guessing it to be 1100fps. I like Buffalo Bore's 360 grain load for carrying in bear country, although it hurts my hand a bit.

^^^ Someday I am going to find some Trail Boss for the Casull . Until then 11 grains of Universal with my 250 grain cast rnfp is a nice break from full throttle loads. About 1200ish FPS out of a 6.5” SBH, so 45Colt +p.