Colt New Police marked New York Police, #1 on grip

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Juneau444

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I hit a dead end on internet research several years ago, kind of let this sit, if anyone can help please. Pistol came down to me from my great-grandfather. It's first year production #18XX, marked "New York Police" on backstrap. It is nickel plated but very well worn under that. I know it's not factory plated. I have seen on dealer websites, "New York Police" marked revolvers like this that they say the number on the butt is the officer's badge number. This one has a big "1." Everyone seems to agree that police commissioner TR got "serial number 1." I'm just kind of wondering ... maybe they mean badge number 1? Or who was badge number 1 in the NYPD in those days?

My great-grandfather went to medical school on the east coast, and family history is that he was chief of surgery at Walter Reed in the early 1900s. He moved to Tucson around 1910 and was a prominent surgeon there through the 1930s. Just seems possible he could have attended to TR some time and maybe ... Anyway probably just dreaming but I am curious about the number 1.
 

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Only Police Officers, Detectives and Sergeants have Badge Numbers in the NYPD, Lieutenants and above do not. I have never seen or made aware of a Nickel plated gun authorized in the NYPD. The time frame is correct for the .32 introduced by Teddy Roosevelt as Police Commissioner. Later Dull Stainless but other than that blue. Looks to me like a presentation or retirement piece. But that said, Car 1 and still is the Police Commissioner in radio lingo so you never know. Definitely a cool revolver.

As a side note, I have seen one digit badge numbers over the years, it is possible for a Police Officer to have had badge number 1.
 
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Thanks :) One of the auction site experts I contacted a while ago looked at the pictures and said that some were factory nickel plated, but this one wasn't, because they didn't nickel plate the screws, so if it was factory the screw heads would still show up blued. I get the impression it was common for guys to have their guns plated back in the day. I have seen pictures of other New York Police marked ones, and they do have numbers on the butt in the same place, but 2 to 4 digit numbers, and a smaller font. Thanks again now I know more about NYPD badge numbers.
 
Juneau444 said:
Thanks :) One of the auction site experts I contacted a while ago looked at the pictures and said that some were factory nickel plated, but this one wasn't, because they didn't nickel plate the screws, so if it was factory the screw heads would still show up blued. I get the impression it was common for guys to have their guns plated back in the day. I have seen pictures of other New York Police marked ones, and they do have numbers on the butt in the same place, but 2 to 4 digit numbers, and a smaller font. Thanks again now I know more about NYPD badge numbers.
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What they call the Patrol Guide was a two page list of rules back then so I am sure many things done then would be a no go now. More on when you could shoot a fleeing felon than the standards of finish for a gun. Really cool and you have something special right there.
 
wcwhitey said:
I have never seen or made aware of a Nickel plated gun authorized in the NYPD.
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They weren't uncommon in the NYPD until 1972. That's when Det. Capers was shot by another officer in Queens while apprehending a suspect.

The officer who shot him said because he had a nickel plated revolver he didn't think he was a police officer, although they were in common use at the time. They were banned after that.
 
The 1 on the butt doesn't match the New York Police on the backstrap. The fonts are different, even the depths are. I don't think they were done by the same engraver and could be unrelated to each other.
 
Thanks but the back strap is actual engraving, I think the numbers are struck with a die and hammer. Like the serial number on the yoke. The number font is the same as other badge numbers I have seen on butts of first batch NYPD New Police revolvers.
 
Thanks, I have noticed, over the years I have seen pictures of several NYPD marked ones with the numbers on the butt. I doubt Colt would have done the stamping, seems more likely NYPD had it done, maybe they had an in house armorer, or just gave the job to some machinist who had a set of dies, took all the new guns out of the boxes and stamped them sequentially. The font is the same though, with the little half bar at the top of the 1, and a full bar at the bottom. Because my serial number in the yoke has a 1, I can tell that it's the same font as the serial number, but not the same size font. Which I guess means the same die manufacturer had different size numbers, but why would the font in a die set be different between sizes. I'll guess that one company made most of the machinist number dies in those days; which would be why the Colt stamped serial number has the same font as the number on the butt, probably not done by Colt (or maybe it was, for that reason).
I guess the question is why the guy with the dies reached into his bag and got a larger font for the 1. All others I have seen are 4 digit numbers. It's probably to prevent someone from later stamping more numbers to one or both sides of the 1 and creating a new, fake number. I'll guess that if we ever saw one with number 8, or number 25, and maybe even 100-999, it will be larger font than used for 4 digit numbers. I.e. the font size would differ based on the number of digits, preventing a 1 or 2 digit number being altered with more numbers stamped on. If someone did that it would be obvious that the font size was wrong for that many digits (our ancestor's were really smart). So, final guess, the font size was determined by the number range.
 
Juneau444 said:
Thanks, I have noticed, over the years I have seen pictures of several NYPD marked ones with the numbers on the butt. I doubt Colt would have done the stamping, seems more likely NYPD had it done, maybe they had an in house armorer, or just gave the job to some machinist who had a set of dies, took all the new guns out of the boxes and stamped them sequentially. The font is the same though, with the little half bar at the top of the 1, and a full bar at the bottom. Because my serial number in the yoke has a 1, I can tell that it's the same font as the serial number, but not the same size font. Which I guess means the same die manufacturer had different size numbers, but why would the font in a die set be different between sizes. I'll guess that one company made most of the machinist number dies in those days; which would be why the Colt stamped serial number has the same font as the number on the butt, probably not done by Colt (or maybe it was, for that reason).
I guess the question is why the guy with the dies reached into his bag and got a larger font for the 1. All others I have seen are 4 digit numbers. It's probably to prevent someone from later stamping more numbers to one or both sides of the 1 and creating a new, fake number. I'll guess that if we ever saw one with number 8, or number 25, and maybe even 100-999, it will be larger font than used for 4 digit numbers. I.e. the font size would differ based on the number of digits, preventing a 1 or 2 digit number being altered with more numbers stamped on. If someone did that it would be obvious that the font size was wrong for that many digits (our ancestor's were really smart). So, final guess, the font size was determined by the number range.
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Something else to consider is that New York was the first city in the US to consolidate it's policing agencies, hire officers for one metropolitan bureau which covered multiple departments, counties and districts, and issue them a sidearm. Previous to this, cities hired armed officers who supplied their own weapons and "kit." It's possible the city issued the weapon with instructions to, "Have your number stamped on it - in this spot," and left it up to the officers to pay a jeweler or tinkerer to do the stamping. In 1895 the NYPD would not have had an in-house armorer - because prior to 1895, law enforcement agencies and departments (including NYPD) didn’t issue guns, so it was up to each officer to provide their own, whether they were a sheriff, constable, or marshal, they shouldered the expense of their own sidearm and its up-keep. The Colt in question is an interesting specimen and I am hoping this thread will result in some new historical information coming out about the first metropolitan policing agency to issue a standard sidearm.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Something else to consider is that New York was the first city in the US to consolidate it's policing agencies, hire officers for one metropolitan bureau which covered multiple departments, counties and districts, and issue them a sidearm. Previous to this, cities hired armed officers who supplied their own weapons and "kit." It's possible the city issued the weapon with instructions to, "Have your number stamped on it - in this spot," and left it up to the officers to pay a jeweler or tinkerer to do the stamping. In 1895 the NYPD would not have had an in-house armorer - because prior to 1895, law enforcement agencies and departments (including NYPD) didn’t issue guns, so it was up to each officer to provide their own, whether they were a sheriff, constable, or marshal, they shouldered the expense of their own sidearm and its up-keep. The Colt in question is an interesting specimen and I am hoping this thread will result in some new historical information coming out about the first metropolitan policing agency to issue a standard sidearm.
Click to expand...

NY Police Department at that time was just Manhattan. Brooklyn had its own PD until the next century. Other boroughs like Staten Island, Queens and for the most part the Bronx were farmland. Hard to believe but true. You are 100% correct with your organizational statements, prior to and even past that posts were purchased as was rank by the individual. Teddy did add a para-military environment to the NY Police as well as instituted standards and training, firearms being one of them.

https://nycpm.org/

This is the link to the Police Museum. I have never been to this location, the last was destroyed during Hurricane Sandy. They very well at least be able to point to some resources.
 
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