Looked thru a new Burris thermal

It is an interesting thermal. It is an entry level sort of unit, NOT made by Burris. It is made in China and is basically a modified GuideIR unit...
http://www.guideirusa.com/product/g...text= Model TS425 , ≤50mk 28 more rows

redneck2 said:

Runs on a standard button battery, but I believe a rechargeable one comes with it.

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Maybe you and I have different ideas of what a 'button battery' is. Button batteries are the small, disc/button shaped, or very squat cylinder batteries like you find in watches and what not. The Burris runs on an 18650 lithium-ion battery which is most decidedly not a button battery.

Button battery reference...
http://linuxfocus.org/~guido/button...he same numbers prefixed by different letters.

I really like the idea of an 18650 rechargeable battery, although 18650 batteries have a rather notorious history, mostly due to counterfeits and fakes. They can and do pose a fire risk, if you are not very careful with them.
https://www.cpsc.gov/th/Newsroom/Ne...-from-Battery-Packs-and-Used-to-Power-Devices
https://www.engadget.com/cpsc-warning-fire-risk-loose-18650-lithiumion-061613315.html

redneck2 said:

Instead of a crapload of various buttons and screens, it has one dial that controls everything.

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Actually, it has at least three operating system controls. It has a power button, a dial, and a selection button inside the dial. The dial button combination brings up a series of on screen menus which are toggled through using the dial and options selected using the button. It sounds like this makes everything easier to use and it may be easier to learn to use, but is not necessarily the most efficient means of operation in the field. The advantage of multiple buttons is that they have different function, often key functions, such that you don't have to toggle through a series of menus in order to find what you want to change.

Where companies producing thermals have issues is in what options that they grant the easiest access to for the user. I am not sure what iteration of menus system Burris is using as to whether or not they put the most important features first.

The control dial and button are located on the left-hand side of the scope. This favors right-handed shooters, FYI.

redneck2 said:

MSRP on the 50mm is around $4k. Street price should be in the $3,300ish range

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Street price for the 50mm is less. Optics Planet already has them at $3k in pre sales, plus offering 10% off coupons.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/burris...5&cnxclid=16195719576673454944110090302008005

The image through them looks decent for 400x300 resolution (PAL standard, IIRC). It appears to have good thermal sensitivity overall, but I have yet to see anybody not associated with Burris produce any results from the units from varied environmental conditions.

You mentioned being able to see dogs at 100 yards. You should be able to hunt them at twice that distance with this unit.

The units also have picture in picture, which I find really nice to use. It was a feature if not pioneered by Pulsar for the civilian market, then certainly popularized by Pulsar for the civilian market. Early Burris videos show overlap between the main image crosshairs and the pic-n-pic image which was somewhat disconcerting. Hopefully, they have worked out that bug.

You mentioned the thermal hot tracker option that tracks the hottest target on screen. It is another one of those interesting features, but the downside to that is that if your intended target isn't the hottest target on the screen then the highlighted hot target can be distracting. Even worse is when there are multiple targets that same high heat level and now you have all sorts of confusing business on the screen because it isn't the hottest target, but all the hottest targets. Which is the right one? I would consider this as one of the least useful features, but with that said, every company that sells thermal scopes has some features that are really good and also seem to include some sort of boneheaded features.

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Assuming that the units do well in the field, I suspect it will be a good seller. It will certainly operate inside of the typical hunting distances of the vast majority of hunters. A lot of people will be willing to buy it based on name recognition and the fact that it isn't super expensive for a thermal. In fact, it is quite reasonably priced. At the current time, there is high demand for thermals in the market, especially low end thermals. I don't doubt the initial offerings will sell out in short order.

I know that people talk about thermal seeing heat, but what it actually does is to see temperature, and more specifically, differences in temperatures. That means it will see hot and cold. We focus on the heat aspect because what we target is often warm (as in warm blooded).

That it was 80 degrees really should not matter so long as what you are looking at (song birds) are a different temperature than whatever is in their background.

Where you are apt to have the most trouble is when everything has an ambient temperature close to body temperature. This happens most commonly in the summer in the late afternoons.

As a side note, some people will use chemical handwarmers to help sight in their thermals. Some people will use ice cubes or even chilled cans of soda or bottles of water for the same task. Again, the critical factor is that the target stands out thermally from its surroundings.

Wait until you get into the woods at night and realize all the mice, rats, and fly squirrels that scurry up and down trees.

Just a FYI my AV does not like the guideusa link, may be ok, maybe not.

Double Naught Spy said:

I know that people talk about thermal seeing heat, but what it actually does is to see temperature, and more specifically, differences in temperatures

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I think you missed physics class on this day. "Heat" is radiated energy in various forms, most of which are in the invisible light spectrum: "Infrared". If an object is "cold" it is radiating less heat than other objects, there is no such thing as "cold" radiation, cold is simply the absence of heat. Thus, a thermal scope is simply measuring the differences in heat emitted by objects and assessing the temperature of that object.

Hugger-4641 said:

I think you missed physics class on this day. "Heat" is radiated energy in various forms, most of which are in the invisible light spectrum: "Infrared". If an object is "cold" it is radiating less heat than other objects, there is no such thing as "cold" radiation, cold is simply the absence of heat. Thus, a thermal scope is simply measuring the differences in heat emitted by objects and assessing the temperature of that object.

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LOL, no lecture missed. I just gave up a long time ago going through the physics lecture with people on the technical distinctions between angstrom units, energy, radiant energy, temperature, and heat when all they wanted to know was how does it work and why doesn't it see color. People are often confounded when thermal can see things like ice cubes. They don't understand why sometimes you can see the image painted on a paper target and sometimes you cannot. The generic, though not 100% accurate explanation is that thermal sees differences in temperature. Hotter objects show up like this and colder objects show up like that. Nobody really wants a discussion of angstrom units in the infrared end of the spectrum. All they want to know is a cursory explanation so that they can shoot coyotes or hogs, LOL.

For the general masses, as you mentioned the terms, "cold" and "hot" are temperature assessments. In general terms, people do not regularly describe temperatures as being hot and less hot, even though cold is still hot, but much less of it. So we commonly and generically refer to things in temperature evaluative terminology, even though it may not be textbook accurate.

So when you think about it, thermal really isn't measuring differences in heat, as you said (and I have as well, many times), so much as seeing differences in angstrom units of the wavelengths of a particular range of infrared light. After all, regular day optics see heat as well. Visible light is a radiated/transfer of energy (i.e., "heat") , but day optics are not considered thermal optics.

Much easier just to say that the thermal sees differences in temperature and move on because people get the gist of why a wet hog (cooler) looks different than a dry hog (warmer) and can then figure out whether or not they want to shoot it, or that they can see a little bird in the tree during daylight.

Which brings up a whole other issue....people are surprised that thermal can work in the day time (as with the OP). Thermal is a form of night vision but is not traditional night vision which relies on visible and near IR light amplification. Thermal doesn't.

Double Naught Spy said:

LOL, no lecture missed. I just gave up a long time ago going through the physics lecture with people on the technical distinctions between angstrom units, energy, radiant energy, temperature, and heat when all they wanted to know was how does it work and why doesn't it see color. People are often confounded when thermal can see things like ice cubes. They don't understand why sometimes you can see the image painted on a paper target and sometimes you cannot. The generic, though not 100% accurate explanation is that thermal sees differences in temperature. Hotter objects show up like this and colder objects show up like that. Nobody really wants a discussion of angstrom units in the infrared end of the spectrum. All they want to know is a cursory explanation so that they can shoot coyotes or hogs, LOL.

For the general masses, as you mentioned the terms, "cold" and "hot" are temperature assessments. In general terms, people do not regularly describe temperatures as being hot and less hot, even though cold is still hot, but much less of it. So we commonly and generically refer to things in temperature evaluative terminology, even though it may not be textbook accurate.

So when you think about it, thermal really isn't measuring differences in heat, as you said (and I have as well, many times), so much as seeing differences in angstrom units of the wavelengths of a particular range of infrared light. After all, regular day optics see heat as well. Visible light is a radiated/transfer of energy (i.e., "heat") , but day optics are not considered thermal optics.

Much easier just to say that the thermal sees differences in temperature and move on because people get the gist of why a wet hog (cooler) looks different than a dry hog (warmer) and can then figure out whether or not they want to shoot it, or that they can see a little bird in the tree during daylight.

Which brings up a whole other issue....people are surprised that thermal can work in the day time (as with the OP). Thermal is a form of night vision but is not traditional night vision which relies on visible and near IR light amplification. Thermal doesn't.

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Lol, ok, glad we're on agreement here.
I've had this conversation a few times. I don't own a thermal at the moment, a friend does and he's convinced it's the best thing since sliced bread. And I do plan on getting a thermal soon. But when I showed him that my ATNx-sight could see through his closed truck window and I could tell him how many people were inside, he understood my choice a little better.

Thermal and Digital NV (ATN X-Sight) are two different beasts. While they both have advantages and disadvantages, for most, the digital NV is a gateway optic into thermal, if they can afford the transition.

Sure enough, thermal optics don't see through windows. Most of the hogs I hunt aren't behind windows, so that isn't an issue.

Will they pick up the heat coming off my wife’s face when she sees the credit card bill?

My flir thermal camera on this phone will pick up footprints left on a hardwood floor.

Nature Boy said:

Will they pick up the heat coming off my wife’s face when she sees the credit card bill?

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It will pick up more than the heat off your wife's face. It is about like x-ray vision.

This is the brake on my son's car.....



And yes...I would like to have a thermal scope too.

Off thread but.....

Will they pick up the heat coming off my wife’s face when she sees the credit card bill?

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I would think with your bills you could do that without any kind of scope it would not surprise me if your esp gave you a warning as soon as the envelope was opened. (or touched)

Armored farmer said:

It will pick up more than the heat off your wife's face. It is about like x-ray vision.

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It is definitely nothing like X-ray vision. X-rays are at a different end of the electromagnetic spectrum, LOL. Thermal does not see through things. If I follow what you are intimating, then what you are seeing is contact transfer of heat through clothing. The thermal only sees what is coming off of the clothing, not what is underneath, though the heat often patterns what is underneath.

Double Naught Spy said:

It is definitely nothing like X-ray vision. X-rays are at a different end of the electromagnetic spectrum, LOL. Thermal does not see through things. If I follow what you are intimating, then what you are seeing is contact transfer of heat through clothing. The thermal only sees what is coming off of the clothing, not what is underneath, though the heat often patterns what is underneath.

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Yeah, I know.
Honestly I was teasing about the glasses they used to advertise in the back of comic books years ago with the spirals in the lenses!

I think it may be useful for identifying hot bearings on my machinery at the end of the day. I have been using a temp gun. The flir camera is much easier.

I wasn't kidding about picking up the footprints off a hardwood floor.

It doesn’t see through things that mask heat but it’s a lot better at reflections that I ever thought it could be. With “good stuff” looking across a pond is much like a daylight photo where you see the trees from the base up and the reflection base down across the water.

First time I was playing with a quality unit I noticed that I could see the level of liquid propane in my tank about 80 yards from where I was and I noticed what looked like a cigarette glowing right underneath it. Walked over there and shined a light to see the tiny nose of a mouse.

Even the best night vision can’t do that.

Not a scope, but a thermal viewer. I have one if those old Raytheon MX-1 thermal monoculars, use it to scan the yard for moose and bear and wolves. Spec-wise, it's supposed to be more "potent" than most other commercial budget options when comparing "human identification distance". I got it for a good price, cheaper than ATN or FLIR or Leupold. It's pretty slick.

Regardless, the thing that really sucks is it won't see through glass. So that means I have to go on my deck, which kinda ruins the "recon" aspect of thermal.

Anyways, I'm enjoying the academic discussion up above because I really don't know much about thermal, but it is super cool.