IMR Enduron Powders?

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I am not sure when they came out. I bought my first pound of IMR 4451 in May 2017. I have been using it for a 30-06 with good results.
 
They haven't been around very long. Maybe 5 years? I'm going to guess they're made in Canada. I've used 4166 with good results in .308 and 4451 with decent results in ..243 and 6.5 Creedmoor. I'd love to try some 7977 in my 7mm RM. I used the data on Hodgdon's website.
 
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I had to got look and I tried IMR-7977 in 280AI and IMR-4451 in 30-06/243 and used Hodgdon 2016 manual. They had few load in 2015 manual.
 
What caught my notice was a suggestion to try the 4166 on a THR thread a few days back. Had never heard of any of them. Got to looking and among other things, they are being marketed as "when you can't find the regular stuff try these". So at least 3 or 4 of them are substitutes for popular powders like Varget and 4064, 4350 and 4831. Checked with Powder Valley and got all excited when a couple of them were listed as being "In Stock". Hopes were dashed when I attempted to place them in my cart and was informed "we can't place out of stock items in your cart".

But it seems we know almost everything about the origins and manufacture of most of the older listed powders, but very little about these. Who makes them and where. Available in abundance......and will be.....or just a flash in the pan?
 
While I can not tell you what company or plant makes this powder, but the back of my 4451 1 lb bottle says "Manufactured in Canada Packaged in USA"
Made in Canada packaged by Hogdons
Hogdons acquired IMR Powder brand in 2003 not sure operates the plant.
 
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I'm pretty sure that all IMR powders that are made in Canada are from General Dynamics. I tried a few of the Enduron series (4166 and 4955) a couple of years back, and found that I had significant bridging issues with them using both the Dillon and Hornady LNL powder measures on my Dillon 550. For that reason, I went back to the Hodgdon Extreme powders.
 
I've found 4451 to be a pretty good substitute for H4350 and 4166 works very much like Varget. I picked up some of each shortly after they came out during the last shortage. I experimented with them enough to know they work, but when 4350 and Varget became available again I went back to them.
 
I have used 5 pounds of 4166 in my .223s so far with very good results . I did not notice it being any cleaner than varget or 4064 , but it was accurate .
 
I like 4166 is I load in an area where it's cold and damn and I shoot where it's dry and sunny. And I get the most consistent results using the IMR 4166 I found its ballistic characteristics very similar to 4895. Oh in the price as well those are my numbers below using a AR-10 with a 16-in barrel I think
Well one of my AR-10's a 16 or 18-in barrel. And it was 147 or a 150 grain Hornady match round sub MOA. I've actually taken My Mauser M18 in 308 with 4166. Loaded with 42.5gn and 22-in Cold hammer forged German barrel out to almost 800 consistently. That sig BDX ain't cheating
Created: 11-11-2020 13:18:27
Description: 308 43gn 4166
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 0.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 56 °F
BP: 1018.00 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
2 2551 0.00 0.00
1 2564 0.00 0.00
Average: 2557.50
StdDev: 9.19
Min: 2551
Max: 2564
Spread: 13
True MV: 2557.50
Shots/sec: 0.12
Group Size (IN): 0.00
 
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You can find data on the Hodgdon web sight, albeit limited. I’m working up a load in 30-06 with IMR 4451. It’s a slow process with a new powder and limited data.
 
I’ve used 4166 and 7977.

The IMR-7977 proved so consistent (low SD, good avg groups) and accurate (best group) in 7mm Rem Mag that I no longer use Retumbo, RL-22, etc.

The IMR-4166 is good in the 223 and 308 but not as good as Varget, CFE223, BL-c(2) and other established powders, so no real reason for me to switch.
 
I like 4166 is I load in an area where it's cold and damn and I shoot where it's dry and sunny. And I get the most consistent results using the IMR 4166 I found its ballistic characteristics very similar to 4895. Oh in the price as well those are my numbers below using a AR-10 with a 16-in barrel I think
Well one of my AR-10's a 16 or 18-in barrel. And it was 147 or a 150 grain Hornady match round sub MOA. I've actually taken My Mauser M18 in 308 with 4166. Loaded with 42.5gn and 22-in Cold hammer forged German barrel out to almost 800 consistently. That sig BDX ain't cheating
Created: 11-11-2020 13:18:27
Description: 308 43gn 4166
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 0.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 56 °F
BP: 1018.00 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
2 2551 0.00 0.00
1 2564 0.00 0.00
Average: 2557.50
StdDev: 9.19
Min: 2551
Max: 2564
Spread: 13
True MV: 2557.50
Shots/sec: 0.12
Group Size (IN): 0.00
How would you compare it to Varget?
 
I've found 4451 to be a pretty good substitute for H4350 and 4166 works very much like Varget. I picked up some of each shortly after they came out during the last shortage. I experimented with them enough to know they work, but when 4350 and Varget became available again I went back to them.

Concerning 4451 and 4350, I found the exact same thing. Its been difficult finding specific load data for 4451 and 7.62x54r, but all of my testing has led me to believe that if 4451 isn't just a differently designed copy of 4350, it's so close that its near identical. My loads got to the point where I was using the same charges for both powders, and getting near identical results.
 
How would you compare it to Varget?
I hate to say it but I can't find Varget. Sorry to say. The 4166 however shoots so clean. It removes buildup while you shoot. If you can find it it's usually less than the 4895. If you like I can post my 4895 for comparison. Let me know sir.
 
Concerning 4451 and 4350, I found the exact same thing. Its been difficult finding specific load data for 4451 and 7.62x54r, but all of my testing has led me to believe that if 4451 isn't just a differently designed copy of 4350, it's so close that its near identical. My loads got to the point where I was using the same charges for both powders, and getting near identical results.
Yes, but the Enduron powders are temperature insensitive. A very big plus to those of us that shoot competitively in AZ and other places where very wide temperature swings are expected.
 
They really are. I live in the City of San Francisco and Fogg here ridiculously prevalent. 4166 is truly a superior smokeless powder. I notice no degradation.
 
I like 4166 is I load in an area where it's cold and damn and I shoot where it's dry and sunny. And I get the most consistent results using the IMR 4166 I found its ballistic characteristics very similar to 4895. Oh in the price as well those are my numbers below using a AR-10 with a 16-in barrel I think
Well one of my AR-10's a 16 or 18-in barrel. And it was 147 or a 150 grain Hornady match round sub MOA. I've actually taken My Mauser M18 in 308 with 4166. Loaded with 42.5gn and 22-in Cold hammer forged German barrel out to almost 800 consistently. That sig BDX ain't cheating
Created: 11-11-2020 13:18:27
Description: 308 43gn 4166
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 0.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 0.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 56 °F
BP: 1018.00 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
2 2551 0.00 0.00
1 2564 0.00 0.00
Average: 2557.50
StdDev: 9.19
Min: 2551
Max: 2564
Spread: 13
True MV: 2557.50
Shots/sec: 0.12
Group Size (IN): 0.00
I'm not sure those numbers make sense. Maybe I'm reading them wrong. How can your average be 2557.5, your min be 2551 and your max be 2564, with a SD of 9.19? 2557.5 - 9.19 = 2,548.31, which is lower than your min. Same problem on the top end of the spread.
 
While I can not tell you what company or plant makes this powder, but the back of my 4451 1 lb bottle says "Manufactured in Canada Packaged in USA"

My 8pd. jug of 4955 contains that line, on the front. I bought mine as a replacement for H4831, as a candidate for my upcoming .25WSSM with bullets heavier than 120gn.
 
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