Coons have fat on them which makes their bodies appear larger as a target, same with porcupines. Probably completely missed the internals to stop him. This just proves shot placement is everything. I assumed people would think shot placement is also important regardless of caliber. A 45 works when it hits where you want it to and can do good damage when your aim isn't perfect. I never said a 45 was what you say above. I can say a 45 gives you a better chance than a 9mm.What seems to be the constant through all this, is peoples perception (or misperception) of what a ".45" is and can do. I get the impression, most seem to think that all they need do, is shoot one round in the general direction and all will be good. "Winner, winner". No need to do anything else.
If someone is "all hoped up" and isn't stopping because you just shot them a couple of times and continues to come at you, whats your response? Not to be a smart ass, but is kind of like that joke going around recently, about the game warden and the bull...but in this case, show them your gun and tell them you're shooting them with a .45.
The first hint that the .45acp might not be all that for me was, when I shot a rabid raccon at work one day. Hit him clean in the forward body with a 230 grain Hydra Shok at about 10 yards. Rolled him right over, and he got right up and was continuing on his merry way until I walked up and shot him in the head.
I was crestfallen that the Colonel might have been exaggerating things a bit all those years.
Is 45acp fading away?
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fxvr5
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According to research done by Greg Ellifritz (using your metric of average number of rounds until incapacitation), the 38 special, 380 Auto, 32 (ACP and Long) and 22 are more effective than the 45 ACP.
Seriously...every situation is different...Stats have to be looked at as how they arrived at the conclusion. This stat suggests more people carry smaller caliber weapons and have used them. By nature of the 45 ACP round the delivery systems tend to larger/heavier. It's preference and availability.
Yes situations do differ. Now if you had a choice of what gun you had when you really needed it would you choose a .22 over a 45?
Yes situations do differ. Now if you had a choice of what gun you had when you really needed it would you choose a .22 over a 45?
JTQ
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Caliber's like .38 Special, .380 Auto, .32 Auto, .25 Auto, .22 LR, are typically not carried by LE. Folks with these calibers may shoot once, assess, shoot again, assess, etc.
Conversely, LE and perhaps other highly trained shooters, can shoot pretty quickly, and are trained to shoot until the threat stops. This means that a first shot may be the one that actually stops a threat, but because the trained shooter can shoot so fast, they may put an extra two or three rounds into a target before the target can show a sign of stopping.
While an after action study of the shooting would probably be able to tell which round was the round that stopped the threat, it's probably not likely that they'd be able to tell whether it was the first or the fourth shot in a quick string of shots was the one that made the hit that stopped the attack.
fxvr5
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How did you come to this conclusion? Have you seen Ellifritz's data?
JR24
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The other thing I haven't seen spelled out in Ellifritz's study that keeps being posted is what exactly his metric was for the "gunfights". Does it include ambush style drug rips and murders that aren't really fights at all or is it only data where bullets were going both ways?
Everytime I've seen the study linked it's a summary and compilation but no real data on what exact metrics were used for the fights.
JTQ
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I suppose it's all relative.
Compared to Rob Leatham or Jerry Miculek, sure.
Compared to the 7 million or so that bought their first handgun in 2020, and had no ammo to practice with, or the guy or gal that bought an S&W K-Frame .38 Special in 1975, and still have 25 rounds from that first box of 50 from when they bought the gun, they are Jedi Masters.
jmorris
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You can tell it’s all but gone because 45 ACP is the ammo they are using as door stops at the local gun store...
I am friends with three different police department firearms instructors and have shot with many more as well as helped out with the first NRA tactical police competition. Many officers are not “gun people” some bring in inoperable firearms when they do have to show proficiency. Ask any one who has to qualify them and you will hear story after story. Even going back to the old revolver days, where the inner working were rusted solid.
In any case one doesn’t have to be “highly trained” to hit a target, just have to be able to aim and fire without disturbing the aim, recoil and blast come after a good (or poor) shot has been made.
I am friends with three different police department firearms instructors and have shot with many more as well as helped out with the first NRA tactical police competition. Many officers are not “gun people” some bring in inoperable firearms when they do have to show proficiency. Ask any one who has to qualify them and you will hear story after story. Even going back to the old revolver days, where the inner working were rusted solid.
In any case one doesn’t have to be “highly trained” to hit a target, just have to be able to aim and fire without disturbing the aim, recoil and blast come after a good (or poor) shot has been made.
JR24
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Gotta be, that's insane price if the person had ever even glanced at Gunbroker or the like.
Aw man I wish that was true, might be easier to find large pistol primers then, I mean who would buy them when they are mostly good for two dead calibers like .45 and .40?
DeepSouth
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the last time our Sherriff was running for re-election our county chapter of the state gun rights association Invited him to come talk and do a Q&A. He told a story about showing up to a domestic violence situation where he took fire, when he went to return fire his gun wouldn’t operate, he didn’t fire a single shot. He did Diagnose the problem saying it probably hadn’t been out of the holster in over a year, maintaining you gun is apparently important.
He also said he “supports everyone’s right to carry their piece” and yes that’s a quote, and yes he got re-elected but with out my vote.
trackskippy
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Ive been shooting a good bit more, and mostly 45acp/colt, 44 special and mag lately, simply because I have and have been able to get more LP primers. Although they all have pretty much dried up now. Small Pistol, small pistol, mag, and small rifle and small rifle mag went fast though.
Oh, and 40S&W uses a small pistol primer.
jmorris
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For most officers, it’s just dead weight. Something they have to put on every day but won’t ever need for the duration of their career. It’s only on TV where cops are always shooting. They have more training in non shooting solutions than ones utilizing firearms.
gnappi
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Now that the 9mm has once again been deemed the stopper of all men and killer of everything short of buffalo? Nah the .40 and .45 will stay on to those who don't care what the herd does.
As far as the comment goes: "You can't shoot $300 worth of ammo every month making $12.50/hour with a $1500 rent. So 9mm takes the prize."
Reloading a .40 or .45 in quantity has a mini uplift in cost, if anyone can't afford that little uplift, they're mot paying rent either.
As far as the comment goes: "You can't shoot $300 worth of ammo every month making $12.50/hour with a $1500 rent. So 9mm takes the prize."
Reloading a .40 or .45 in quantity has a mini uplift in cost, if anyone can't afford that little uplift, they're mot paying rent either.
GeoDudeFlorida
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.40S&W uses small primers. Trust me, I just started reloading for it in anticipation of not being able to find inexpensive, good quality practice/plinking target ammo. In three or maybe four years all you'll see of .40S&W is low-velocity indoor range ammo and an annual run of XTP/GDHP/JHC etc. for 50-round/box money in 20-round boxes.
But .45ACP will still be a primary target, carry, defensive caliber. There are still DoD units using .45ACP.
JR24
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Oh, and 40S&W uses a small pistol primer.
Oops, massive brain fart. I don't load .40 obviously and assumed in the moment it was the same as 10mm, which I actually knew better. Thanks for correcting.
JR24
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True, before the madness I was only paying $0.01-0.03 more for .45 over 9mm depending on the deals I got for projectiles. Seems a bit more of a gap these days, but not by a whole lot.
375supermag
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The .45ACP is probably fading away.
I know I only own two 1911 pistols in .45ACP among the large number of handguns I own.
Couple of days ago, I decided to put a new Rock Island 1911 on layaway at a local gun shop. I chose one chambered in .45ACP.
No idea why I chose a caliber that is apparently fading away... probably because it's what I have carried for over 40 years and it just plain works.
I have semi autos in 9mm and .40S&W that I shoot quite well but I don't carry them. I also shoot a couple of 10mm semi autos almost every week but I didn't buy one in that caliber either. Nothing wrong with 10mm... it's a fine accurate and powerful cartridge.
If I am going to rely on a semi auto pistol to protect my life and my family's life, it is going to be a 1911 and it's going to be chambered in .45ACP.
I know I only own two 1911 pistols in .45ACP among the large number of handguns I own.
Couple of days ago, I decided to put a new Rock Island 1911 on layaway at a local gun shop. I chose one chambered in .45ACP.
No idea why I chose a caliber that is apparently fading away... probably because it's what I have carried for over 40 years and it just plain works.
I have semi autos in 9mm and .40S&W that I shoot quite well but I don't carry them. I also shoot a couple of 10mm semi autos almost every week but I didn't buy one in that caliber either. Nothing wrong with 10mm... it's a fine accurate and powerful cartridge.
If I am going to rely on a semi auto pistol to protect my life and my family's life, it is going to be a 1911 and it's going to be chambered in .45ACP.
cslinger
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I mean technically in the last year and a half all ammo has been fading away. Just sayin’.
I like .45 ACP. Probably the round I cut my teeth on as I look back. I don’t have any mythical beliefs surrounding it but I like it and have found myself moving back to it myself.
But then again I like rounds that are In calibers........or millimeters.......or inches.....ahh hell I like rounds.
I like .45 ACP. Probably the round I cut my teeth on as I look back. I don’t have any mythical beliefs surrounding it but I like it and have found myself moving back to it myself.
But then again I like rounds that are In calibers........or millimeters.......or inches.....ahh hell I like rounds.
To have a reasonably light pistol in a caliber that can do its job it's hard to top the 45ACP. Diameter is one factor, then weight and velocity (pressure).
Sure new chamberings come on the market directed at making people feel dissatisfied with what they currently have, they need to sell more!
Marketing is making people dissatisfied and coming up with a solution regardless if it's truly better or not. In time it shakes out and we can weigh price vs performance.
With a reasonably sized pistol you can only get so much velocity since higher pressures require beefier barrels and breeches.
Sure new chamberings come on the market directed at making people feel dissatisfied with what they currently have, they need to sell more!
Marketing is making people dissatisfied and coming up with a solution regardless if it's truly better or not. In time it shakes out and we can weigh price vs performance.
With a reasonably sized pistol you can only get so much velocity since higher pressures require beefier barrels and breeches.
I mean technically in the last year and a half all ammo has been fading away. Just sayin’.
Panic buying reducing inventories to zero does not indicate a cartridge is on its way out.
Besides, 45 ACP is a newbie when compared to 9x19, 9x19 was introduced several years before the 45 ACP hit the scene.
Both have flourished for more than 100 years, not a bad run in my opinion when compared to other "new and improved" cartridges.
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Howland937
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I'm no expert, but everything I've seen shows 9x19 introduced circa 1902, and .45acp 1904.
The smarta** in me wants to ask what's the 9mm's overall record in World Wars...but I won't.
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