Some Remington updates...

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Really, really, hope it works. I've always had success with Remington's. This statement makes me curious:
Q: What are your plans for the Model Seven? The 7600 and 750? What about the semiauto shotguns?
After the 870 and 700, our next priorities are to bring back our revered model 1100 and the revolutionary V3 and VersaMax shotguns. We continue to evaluate the many other products and will make timely decisions on the direction to take as core products are up to top capacity.
As the M7 is my favorite hunting action. I was hoping it's be up there with the 700s and 870 in re-introduction priority, but he avoided the question somewhat. The prices for used M7s on Gunbroker right now are in the "stupid" zone. I'd like to pick up a 3rd and 4th, or at least a decent action for a build.
 
Looks like their going FUDD, which is, admittedly, their strong suit, but it is also a hard row to hoe in this current firearms market. Can you keep a gun company afloat on mid tier shotguns and bolt action rifles? Time will tell, but as long as D'Arcy et al is at the helm I am not interested.
 
I agree. My friend worked there over 20 years. My Uncle and Grandfather both retired from "The Arms" as it is known locally. My friend has moved to Florida. He did QA for Marlin and always complained about being over ruled on quality with a definite "ship first" attitude. Central New Yorkers are very interested in quality and hard working. Very blue collar. I have no doubt that they will produce a quality product if given the tools, the ability, and the overhead. They are big users of the products they produce.
 
I looked up who bought Remington, or what they are calling Remington Arms in the article. It was bought by an investment group called Roundtree Group LLC. This is an MSN article but the info is there without any PC silliness. ( yes, I am biased against msn)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/remington-who-s-buying-the-pieces/ar-BB19vfwr

If this is old news, my apologies.

Personally, I like that they are bringing back the Remington “flagship” guns. I just hope they are “flagship” worthy.
I was looking to buy a Remington 700 a couple of years ago but after my experience with their pistols I was not about to spend any more money with them until they got their act together. Then they went bankrupt.
 
They desperately need to innovate.

The Millenialls and Gen Z is by and large NOT interested in classic wood and steel firearms. Hunting guns are referred to as “Fudd” guns by them in reference to the dopy cartoon Elmer Fudd. Self defense and tactical oriented guns are what these new generations are after.

I believe if they brought out a quality well designed AR-15 style magazine fed semi auto shotgun in the same vein as the foreign Turkish and Filipino guns but with the big Remington name it would be a huge seller.

As for me, I love the 1100 series but I am extremely skeptical of what quality this new Remington will produce. Maybe they’ve decided to increase quality control but do keep in mind now more than ever guns of all types are being made to a price point and most new young buyers are not at all discerning. I would wager 75% or more of the new customers won’t even know Remington even went out of business to begin with.
 
While some may disparage the 870 and 700, those are two products by which others are judged. I suspect the 870 is the all time best selling pump shotgun

The 700 is probably in the top two or three bolt actions of all time.
IMO, they used to be. I don't know if they are right now (or were before they shut down). I think they will need to raise the build quality up a bit to realistically compete. Most people I talked to liked the model 700 action, but planned to change out the barrel and do other work to make it more accurate. Remington needs to do that out of the box. That doesn't even get into the production QA/QC issues they were having along with the failed pistol products.

Remington has work ahead of them if they want to get back into the market. We will see if that happens.
 
Their Model 783 line of budget bolt guns seemed to be quite popular. Not sure if that model will be coming back.
 
IMO the 870 is a solid design and is my favorite Remington product. The gun can be anything a user wants. If someone is looking for a Fudd shotgun it can be that. If someone is looking for tacti-cool shotgun it can be that, or anything in between. Between possible factory configurations and aftermarket support it can do a lot.

There are a lot of contenders for quality pump shotguns and many others can boast about certain features, but when looked at from a total package I still like the 870 the most.

The 700 has been a top seller for a long time. But it really does have some design features that are weak points. Many of the newer 700 clones have addressed these and have been building a better 700 for several years. If they're going to bring back the 700 I hope these features are addressed.

While the market for walnut and blue steel has subsided, accurate bolt guns are pretty hot right now. Most shooters today are simply shooters and not hunters. The market in rifles, cartridges, and optics reflects that. Even the guys who do still hunt are spending a LOT more time in the off season shooting at the range. It is only natural for them to choose to hunt with the same gear they use year round. There aren't many guys who break out the red and black plaid outfit for a week every fall and make a box of 30-30 ammo last a decade anymore. I think there can be a market for both the 870 and 700 if they are marketed right. Assuming they get the quality there.
 
The 700's problem is that the budget guns by Ruger, Savage, Thompson Center, etc., are shooters. And the 700 isn't a premium rifle that you aspire to. Remington's target customer likely already has a 700. Remington needs to innovate to survive.
 
I am genuinely hopeful that the companies that bought up the Remington carvings will do great things with the IP of Remington. Just a matter of wait and see.
 
The 700's problem is that the budget guns by Ruger, Savage, Thompson Center, etc., are shooters. And the 700 isn't a premium rifle that you aspire to. Remington's target customer likely already has a 700. Remington needs to innovate to survive.
Don't tell RemArms that, they think they can rebuild a gun company selling to the current market, the previous generation's favorite hunting guns. Hunting is on a fairly step decline and many of us still doing it are using much more recent creations than 870's and 700's.
 
Don't tell RemArms that, they think they can rebuild a gun company selling to the current market, the previous generation's favorite hunting guns. Hunting is on a fairly step decline and many of us still doing it are using much more recent creations than 870's and 700's.

I suspect that you can build a business on hunting guns, but it will be a niche business, think FA. If you want to be an industry leader, hunting arms need to only be one aspect of the business. Bringing the R51 to production was good, but the cost savings mentality which ruined the actual production is so likely to be perpetuated that I don't really have much hope for Remington's future.
 
I suspect that you can build a business on hunting guns, but it will be a niche business, think FA. If you want to be an industry leader, hunting arms need to only be one aspect of the business. Bringing the R51 to production was good, but the cost savings mentality which ruined the actual production is so likely to be perpetuated that I don't really have much hope for Remington's future.

RemArms has to pay for the overhead on a nearly 200 year old facility that has 1 million square feet of floor space on the profits from 870's, 700's, and similar hunting focused firearms. This seems unlikely, but maybe they will prove me wrong but given the leadership I doubt they succeed with the bankruptcy brothers (D'Arcy and Italia) at the helm.
 
They desperately need to innovate.

The Millenialls and Gen Z is by and large NOT interested in classic wood and steel firearms. Hunting guns are referred to as “Fudd” guns by them in reference to the dopy cartoon Elmer Fudd. Self defense and tactical oriented guns are what these new generations are after.

I believe if they brought out a quality well designed AR-15 style magazine fed semi auto shotgun in the same vein as the foreign Turkish and Filipino guns but with the big Remington name it would be a huge seller.

As for me, I love the 1100 series but I am extremely skeptical of what quality this new Remington will produce. Maybe they’ve decided to increase quality control but do keep in mind now more than ever guns of all types are being made to a price point and most new young buyers are not at all discerning. I would wager 75% or more of the new customers won’t even know Remington even went out of business to begin with.

You say "Self defense and tactical oriented guns are what these new generations are after", yet that is exactly what the 870 is if the owner wants it to be.

Too many people online are going "Fudd. LOL" it seems and are not thinking about this from a business perspective.

When you are starting up a business, either new or from out of bankruptcy You NEED cashflow. Start making ANY money, or at least reduce your losses, as soon as possible. The 700 and 870 lines are the obvious first choice. All those employees and tooling need to be doing something. So have them start making something you know works and is going to be REALLY hard to screw up. Great, now you have income and might even be making some money. Now you have some time to innovate.

You point out that young buyers are not discerning. I would ask is that a change in preference or a symptom of something else?

When it comes to handguns, young buyers are INCREDIBLY discerning. Sure if they just need something that goes "pew" they'll settle for what is available... which is the exact same as past generations. If they have the choice, they will become discerning and pick whatever fits them the best. Just look at the different colors available.

The gun buying public being undiscerning at times is merely a symptom of, among other things, the AR-15. It can be customized like Lego bricks, but this also means it has the character of a Lego brick, none. As long as all the parts fit together and work like you want, it makes literally no difference what parts you use. The only ARs that retain character are those from before the AR became a set of Lego bricks. They won't care about a Remington AR any more than they care about an Anderson AR.

Mag fed shotguns are temperamental beasts. Especially when you shoot target loads. You can't just grab whatever says "12 gauge" on the box and expect it to work with no problems. (You can say the same about tube fed guns, especially the autos, but you get get away with it more often than not with them.) This would be a bad direction to go for a company wanting to build a reputation.

If you want innovation, Remington could easily do it by competing with the CMMG Banshee. How? The R51 Gen 2.

The bugs are already worked out of the core design.
They could sell the R51 before for an inexpensive price. (I hope they bring it back.)
The hesitation lock design

How does this mean innovation?

A full sized PCC using the R51 action as its core. You'll get the benefits of the CMMG Banshee, lighter weight and lower felt recoil, at a much lower price. Unlike other pistol actions, the R51 uses a fixed barrel. So it doesn't matter if the barrel is 4" long or 16" long. The most they might need to do is adjust the slide(bolt carrier) weight and when the slide(bolt carrier) picks up the bolt. I imagine in a carbine they would go with a slightly heavier slide(bolt carrier) that travels slightly further at a lower velocity before picking up and unlocking the bolt. This would be easy to prototype as all you would have to do is have some slides(bolt carriers) made with different lengths for where the bolt gets picked up. Drill some holes and use steel/tungsten inserts to test different bolt weights for prototyping. I'm sure there are calculations and simulations they can run to get it roughed in, then do this just for the final fine tuning.

The design is already hammer fired, so they can keep it with the magazine in the grip or use a Ruger New Model PC-9 or AR-15 type trigger group and have the magazine well in front of the trigger group.

Obviously they would have to adjust the grip or mag well to use double stack mags.

They would also need to tweak the disassembly. The R51 is NOT a fun gun to take apart. Not sure if having a takedown function like the Ruger would be the way to go or not? I never use it on mine and don't consider it a requirement. So forgoing the complexity and weight of a takedown feature might be the way to go.

Thank you for listening to my rambling TED Talk. :oops:
 
No disrespect toward any members intended... but when we (as a community) constantly use the term "Fudd," it serves only to illustrate how we've divided ourselves. We're doing the work for the other side. Seriously. As a very wise man once said, "We must all hang together, or most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

Back on topic, to say the 700 is a bolt action by which all others are judged... well, that ship sailed with Remington's history of poor Q/C, customer service and botched recalls over a period of years. As far as the 870, I've been issued one for years. I prefer the 590A1.
 
I can't wait to find out what people say of their new (old) products when they drop. I wonder if it would be a good idea to hold off and wait for others to test their new production runs or if it makes sense to buy one right off the bat, reason being they may possibly go through those first few runs with a fine tooth comb to make sure everything is top notch because they know the initial launch could make or break them.

I might just grab an 870 when they drop.
 
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