Do You Think This .380 Round Is Sufficient For Self-Defense?

C0untZer0 said:

Didelphis virginiana is a strange animal. It's harder to kill one of those than it is to kill a human.

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Yeah, I've heard stories here of a few people shooting armadillos with .45 ACP and the armadillos kept going. For how long I can't remember.

Speaking of possums, I've killed them (when needed) with a .177 pellet rifle. Admittedly, I've put more than one pellet in each them. The first pellet might stop them, the second and third to make sure they aren't playing dead.

I say yes, it's not the best performing round but it's not the worst either. Plenty of grown men have been put in the dirt with the 380. Now whether it's a great fight stopper is a different story, but all in all most of the time people don't stick around when gunshots ring out.

Me personally, for different reasons or under different circumstances, I have at one time or another carried 5-6 shot revolvers in 22 WMR to 357, 6-8 round .380s, 7 to 15 round 9mms, and 7 round 45 ACPs. Life is full of compromises, and sometimes you have to make choices and roll the dice.

Three things:
1. Trust nobody, including me, do your own research.
2.Statistics do not always tell the whole story, and they are based on quality and availability of data used. If the available data only has one person shot with a 44 mag and that person goes down on the first shot, then it is 100% effective. If there are 100 people shot with a 9mm and 95/100 go down in one shot, it is only 95% effective.
3. A creative statistician can bend data to say pretty much what he wants it to say given enough data points

Info:

• .380 ACP, 95 grain: 190 ft-lbs.
• .38 special, 158 grain: 200 ft-lbs.
• .38 Special +P, 125 grain: 248 ft-lbs.
• 9x19mm, 124 grain: 345 ft-lbs.
• 9x19mm +P, 124 grain: 410 ft-lbs.
• .40 S&W, 165 grain: 476 ft-lbs.
• .44 Special, 200 grain: 360 ft-lbs.
• .45 ACP, 230 grain: 369 ft-lbs.
• .45 ACP +P, 185 grain: 534 ft-lbs.
• 10mm Auto, 200 grain: 537 ft-lbs.
• .357 Magnum, 125 grain: 583 ft-lbs.
• .41 Magnum, 210 grain: 705 ft-lbs.
• .44 Magnum (reduced load), 210 grain: 729 ft-lbs.
  
  One shot stops: expanding bullets
  • .380 ACP: 68 – 70%
  • 9mm: 88 – 91%
  • .40 S&W: 90 – 94%
  • .45 ACP: 88 – 96%
  
  One stop shots FMJ
  • 380 ACP: 55%
  • 9mm: 70%
  • .40 S&W: 71%
  • .45 ACP: 62%
  
  Source: https://skyaboveus.com/hunting-shooting/Defensive-Handgun-Cartridges-are-all-the-Same-Facts-vs-Hype

I don't have an answer to your question, only you can decide if it is enough or not, and regardless of what I or anyone else says on the internet, you have to make up your own mind and you get to live or die with those choices.

What I get out of the above

Nothing is 100% one shot stop, so, practice double taps (more may be needed)

Caliber is less important than being able to hit what you shoot at, under stress, or, failing that, shooting multiple times in the right area (center mass) and hope you hit something that stops the threat.

Hollow points are better statistically than FMJs, but, neither is a 100% one shot stopper.

The energy difference between a 38 and 380 is negligible ~10 foot lbs of force

+P makes a difference in energy level by caliber - 38+p is more energy than 38 special etc. My experience is it also produces greater recoil and slower second shots

The difference between a 9mm and a 45 ACP is pretty much negligible.~25 ft lbs - weight can be a factor here in carrying and controlling recoil - the polymer 9mm is lighter to carry than a steel 1911

10mm is close to 357 in energy

41 through 44 Magnum are higher energy

Dave

Any weapon, or any cartridge, is sufficient, until it isn’t. A “road rager” is a different tactical problem than a face-to-face armed robber. (Not all road rage incidents are the result of mutual escalation. A road rager may simply decide that I am “the one,” at that time and place, and in congested traffic, driving away does not always work.)

A bullet, fired from a .380 ACP pistol, has the capability to break a human femur, so, potentially, can suffice, for unarmored opponents, who are in the open, at close range. Potentially. Higher velocity ammunition can deliver greater potential, at longer distances, and, can provide a better margin of performance through intervening materials/obstacles. We each choose our salvation.

C0untZer0 said:

Didelphis virginiana is a strange animal. It's harder to kill one of those than it is to kill a human.

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Truth. I tagged one with a 16 gauge at about 30' once and still had to finish it with BTF. Seen another take a .22 between the eyes (like mentioned) and keep on going.

Some animals' will to live is just unlike anything we can generally match

It can be
Depending on the load and the firearm you use. I would want a longer barrel for a .380, a snub doesn’t get the best performance from it.
Beretta, Browning with a 3 inch or better barrel would outperform a Kel-Tec ammo wise.

WrongHanded said:

I don't think you'll have to worry about under-penetration with that cartridge. I think a flat point is a good choice for the .380acp, though the Lehigh Xtreme Defenders may be even better.

As far as stopping a threat goes? Well you see the videos of cops shooting people multiple times and the suspect keeps coming. Whatever cartridge they happen to be using is more powerful than a .380. So if you really want to ensure you prevail in a deadly encounter, you should practice shooting for the central nervous system. Then, if you ever need to stop a threat right this instant, you can do so.

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Be careful with this. Shooting for CNS (ie head shots) could have you run afoul of a murder charge since your intent was the bad guy/gal's death. Better to rely on two to the chest and if the perp doesn't stop then one to the cranium.

Arkansas Paul said:

Paul Harrell does a lot of testing different bullets.
Here is one for .380 acp.
The Hornady Critical Defense was by far the best bullet.

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Thanks, I hadn't seen that. I don't watch a lot of gun videos on youtube but I like Paul Harrell. I like how he sets up his "meat" targets. I think it is probably more realistic than gelatin.

Sarge7402 said:

... Better to rely on two to the chest and if the perp doesn't stop then one to the cranium.

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Never been there and done that, but I can't hardly believe you're going to have the time to make an "if....then" decision branch. He can already be "dead" from the two in his chest and still keep coming until his brain dies from lack of blood supply.

LookAtYou said:

I can understand a .38 snubbie for ccw, but for me I lean towards easy shooters, which is why I chose .380 over .38 for deep ccw choice. I have to ask, how is it shooting +P rounds out of a snub nose? I'd prob rather lean towards wadcutters in .38

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Not fun. My LCR is very lightweight and the plus P ammo stings so I'm not inclined to practice with it much.

upptick said:

Not fun. My LCR is very lightweight and the plus P ammo stings so I'm not inclined to practice with it much.

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Yeah, my LCR is less fun than hot 10mm or really hot .44 mag. My wife shot maybe 3 rounds through it of weakly loaded .38 powderpuff, put it down and wouldn't pick it back up. She likes my fairly hot .357 mag loads in her Vaquero just fine.

Sarge7402 said:

Be careful with this. Shooting for CNS (ie head shots) could have you run afoul of a murder charge since your intent was the bad guy/gal's death. Better to rely on two to the chest and if the perp doesn't stop then one to the cranium.

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Very true. From my perspective it's a last resort, and probably at contact distance. At that point, it may well be a hook punch....with a gun. I'm certainly not advocating anyone start with a head shot.

A Sig p365 replaces my 380s. It fits in the same pocket holster as a s&w bodyguard.

LookAtYou said:

Hey everyone. Real quick, I just wanted your opinions on this .380 95 Grain Flat Nose FMJ round for conceal carry/self defense. 6+1 in a stock mag, 8+1 with +2 mag extension. Around 900 FPS average. Flat Nose kind of acts similar to a wadcutter in that it cuts tissue better than a round nose due to a flatter shoulder.

I don't sorry about over penetration too much in .380, even tho I realize it could be a potential risk. Missing shots altogether is much more likely and way worst, but anyways, what do you think of the terminal ballistics and the ability of this specific round in the Glock 42, as far as stopping a threat/self defense? Thanks.

Edit:
By the way, the base diameter is 0.356" and the meplat (flat nose) is roughly 0.25". So the actual cut hole size might be 0.25" inches diameter, while the rest of the bullet theoretically just pushes/slides through tissue. I feel that 2-3 rounds to chest and vast majority of people are in bad shape, in my opinion.

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Check for rimlock. I recommend round nose to increase OAL and help prevent rimlock. You can also always add a shim to your mags.

No comment on the power of effectiveness of the round. I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed.

^^^^ second on the Sig p365 though.

SharpDog said:

Check for rimlock. I recommend round nose to increase OAL and help prevent rimlock. You can also always add a shim to your mags.

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Rimlock is not likely. The 380 is rimless. Even if the rim of the upper round gets behind the rim of the lower round the top round should straighten out quickly from nosedive after engaged by the forward movement of the slide.

fxvr5 said:

Rimlock is not likely. The 380 is rimless. Even if the rim of the upper round gets behind the rim of the lower round the top round should straighten out quickly from nosedive after engaged by the forward movement of the slide.

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You're right, sorry I was confused with .32 acp, my bad. I only shoot 9mm or greater

The FBI used 380s for backup at one point. I think our view on energy is a bit skewed as the 380 puts out the same energy as many of the fabled wheels guns that all the gunfighters of yore used. Obvious more power is better, but the 380 does fall into adequate and capable of stopping a person. Of course there are many options, but it's certainly still lethal.

Can it be effective? Sure, I believe so.

Would I choose it myself? No, I can conceal a mid sized 9mm or better just fine, I don't have much use for a tiny gun except a BUG (which I don't quite feel the need to carry yet).

If I do find the need for one, I think I have an LCP around here somewhere.

jimbo555 said:

A Sig p365 replaces my 380s. It fits in the same pocket holster as a s&w bodyguard.

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This is what my wife chooses to carry as well. Fits her hand and controllable for her. Replaced her p238.

As for the .380 round itself I believe different people make different choices for different reasons. As for myself I prefer 9mm or larger cartridges for carry. My wife is recoil averse & at times has arthritis pain in her hands. She finds a snub nosed .38 unpleasant to shoot. My original solution to this was to get her a full sized 9mm. She liked that better but wanted to carry & it did not work well with her size & body type. So when S&W came out with the 380 EZ in a smaller but not tiny gun I thought it would be a good option for her. Small enough to conceal but less recoil. A better chance of getting her to practice with it as it is not unpleasant to her. Everything about a handgun is a compromise.

was reading around the web and found this, was a decent read, but like said before, do your own research and make your own decisions on what is right for you.

https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/caliber-for-concealed-carry/

Dave

Here is what appears to be a well thought out and researched video.

Ric said:

It can be
Depending on the load and the firearm you use. I would want a longer barrel for a .380, a snub doesn’t get the best performance from it.
Beretta, Browning with a 3 inch or better barrel would outperform a Kel-Tec ammo wise.

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Browning 1911-380 Barrel lengths:

• Full Size, 4 1/4"
• Compact, 3 5/8"

That's a great video. Despite all my youtubing, had never stumbled across that one before.