Ortgies; most accurate 32ACP?

Status
Not open for further replies.
berettaprofessor

berettaprofessor

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
3,419
Location
Kansas
I picked up a 4th variation Ortgies in good condition at a gun show today, matching serials, original grips and factory magazine. What a marvelously engineered pistol; soft-shooting for the snappy 32acp, simple takedown and cleaning, great access to the firing pin and channel, and accurate as heck. In fact, I saw an internet reference that in the 1920's, 70% of competitive winners used an Ortgies.

And a bonus for the reloader; I shot 44 rounds through it and found every piece of brass! It doesn't launch brass to the stratosphere like every other 32 I own.

Good gracious those sights are small though.

Which brings up a question; occasionally we talk about what older pistols we'd like to see made again. Now I'm wondering why Remington didn't decide to upgrade the 380 Ortgies with decent sights rather than remake the R51? A target-sighted Ortgies 380 would sell, I think. Maybe make the palm safety a real one instead of a cocking mechanism, enlarge the trigger guard a little, and you'd have a REAL pistol.

Yes, I know, pictures or it didn't happen: Ortgies Variation 4 32ACP right.jpg
 
I was always impressed at the quality of fit & finish, machine work is remarkably well done. Sights leave a little to be desired.


IMG_0193.jpg

IMG_0187.jpg
 
Below is a .32 ACP target pistol

Pardini HP, Cal. 32 ACP, 5" Barrel for NRA Bullseye
[HPACP5]
$2,750.00

HP_500.jpg
Semiautomatic gun in Cal.32 ACP. Specially designed for the NRA Bullseye event. Magazine with 5 rounds capacity. Optional second magazine included. 5 Inch Barrel Counterweight with an integrated Picatinny rail and six weights with springs, designed to reduce recoil and provide for wide adjustment of the balance. Adjustable ergonomical walnut grip in S, M, L sizes, as well as Left Hand grips in M and L sizes. Fully adjustable trigger.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2021-6-6_17-30-47.png
    upload_2021-6-6_17-30-47.png
    263.3 KB · Views: 2
Ortgies made several Target models back in the 20's and 30's; They also made nice pocket autos in .32ACP and .380ACP. I've never shot the .32, but the .380 was quite accurate.
 
berettaprofessor said:
Now I'm wondering why Remington didn't decide to upgrade the 380 Ortgies with decent sights rather than remake the R51?
Click to expand...

Because it wasnt a "Remington" and "Ortgies" has zero name recognition.

Besides, nobody wants a .380 that big, so they would scale it up to a 9mm and then the blowback action wouldnt cut it anymore, oh and then they would try to make it cheaper with MIM parts and plastic springs, then lets lighten it with an aluminum frame and stamp the magazines from tin foil........
 
The Ortgies design, while ingenious, has a couple of significant weak spots; the striker has arms that break easily, and the disconnector is delicate, and hard to adjust if it gets out of order. This is all described in J. B. Wood's old but still valuable book "Troubleshooting Your Handgun". I think it is quoted in this article at Ed Buffaloe's website: https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Ortgies/ortgies.html

Also, there is just no point to making a 380 this size any more. It is now quite practical to make 9mm Parabellum pistols the same size, and to make 380 pistols that are significantly smaller. Their are lots of existing 380's the size of the Ortgies for people that want one, and frankly, the Ortgies was not a good enough to design for anyone to copy it, or any of its unique features, since it was introduced about 100 years ago.
 
Last edited:
entropy said:
Ortgies made several Target models back in the 20's and 30's; They also made nice pocket autos in .32ACP and .380ACP. I've never shot the .32, but the .380 was quite accurate.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to know more about the Ortgies target models. A couple of quick Google searches didn't turn up anything. Could you tell me where to look?
 
Last edited:
fxvr5 said:
How big is it? How does its size compare with Browning 1911-380, Beretta Model 84, S&W 380 EZ?

thanks.
Click to expand...

Well, that's a good point, fxvr5. It is a bit smaller than the 1911-380, but not as bulky as the Beretta 84. It is not as big as the S&W 380 EZ, although I believe it is heaver, because the EZ has a reinforced plastic frame and the Ortgies is all steel.

The Model 84 is out of production, as I understand it. It might be possible to explain away the 1911-380 and S&W 380 EZ as niche guns, for 1911 fans and the very recoil sensitive respectively, but it would easier to just admit I was wrong and recognize there there still is a demand for medium-sized 380 pistols.

I would still say that there would be no point in making a new Ortgies, because the design was simply not that good to start with, and there has been a lot of progress since. The 1911-380 is based on an even older design, of course, but one that was brilliant, widely copied, and still in production in many other calibers today.
 
Last edited:
Below is a .32 ACP target pistol
Click to expand...

Ok, LOL, I should have said production pistol!

Tallball, I've got one of those Berettas; not as accurate in my hands, despite the longer barrel. Maybe because of the barrel lock/unlock. The Ortgies barrel isn't fixed, but it might as well be with that 90 twist removal maneuver.

Jim Watson, I don't think that was the point of the article I got that statistic from; whatever the event, many competitive shooters chose an Ortgies over, say, a Browning.
 
The 32acp/380 version is pretty much the same size as other FN 1910 variations, smaller than a Beretta 81/84 and slimmer. The barrel could be changed from 32acp to 380 by a simple 90 twist.

Ortgies-03b-small.jpg Ortgies-03-small.jpg
 
"Tallball, I've got one of those Berettas; not as accurate in my hands, despite the longer barrel. Maybe because of the barrel lock/unlock. The Ortgies barrel isn't fixed, but it might as well be with that 90 twist removal maneuver."

Well, poo. Now you're making me want an Ortgies. :)
 
berettaprofessor said:
Ok, LOL, I should have said production pistol!

T..................
Click to expand...
That pistol was produced, but as a target pistol and likely being europe they do not sell too many of there. If it were made here by smith and wesson say for about $1500 it might sell very well. I have always wanted a pistol in either 32 or 380 built on a frame similar to a decent .22 target pistol. The smith and wesson 32 revolver were accurate enough with decent sights to hunt squirrels with.
 
I have read that .32 ACP Hornady XTP is more accurate at 50 yards than .32 S&W Long wadcutter. Which is why Pardini shows it for NRA shooting. ISU shooting is at 25 meters and the wadcutters are about right there.
 
Interesting, I do know the 60 Gr XTP shoots very well for me in .32 ACP, but I have only tried the 80 & 100 Gr XTPs in .32 Long/Mag.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
Range Report: Used Bersa .380 Thunder
Replies
2
Views
619
Matthew_Q
M
U
  • Locked
S&W Bodyguard .380 vs. Ruger LCP - both with laser
Replies
3
Views
1K
KSDeputy
K
R
  • Locked
BUG Range Report: NAA Guardian .32ACP
Replies
5
Views
951
Vonderek
Vonderek
S
CZ P10C--first impressions
Replies
8
Views
353
Savage30L
S
S
  • Locked
The Defensive Makarov Revisited...
2
Replies
45
Views
7K
Aka Zero
A
Back
Top