Clandestine 5.56 223 loads

milsurpguy said:

Because why not.
223 and 556 are going to be supersonic not much I can do about that.
I might try a faster powder to reduce muzzel flash and blast.
It would be more economical too.
My first guess is use something like H322, but that's only a little faster than what I normally use blc-2, 748, AA2520, ect.
But I do have some RE7, the book data stops at about 52gr alliant has more data for heavier bullets.
It looks like all the book data I can find for RE7 tops out at about 20 to 21gr for all bullet weights 40 to 52gr. Then continues to top out at about 20 gr for heavier bullets too. Seems it burns so fast, inside the case hits 55,000psi before the bullet can barely move. These loads appear to cycle DI guns. It should make about 30% less gas volume for the silencer to quiet down and I would expect very little muzzel flash from such a low volume of fast burning powder, not really necessary, but I'll take it.
I bet it would reduce barrel and silencer heating too.
Velocity would be down about 15% off top preforing loads, muzzel energy down about 25%. It should still mow down coyotes pretty well.
Anyone load 223 or 5.56 with RE7?

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There's a trail boss recipe on hodgdon's iirc! Eta:
Hodgdon doesn't show it anymore but it's been discussed on thr several times! 1 example:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/223-loads-with-trailboss-versus-other-powders.775257/

Hodgden had a couple subsonic loads using Titegroup, Clays, and Trailboss with 55 grain FMJ bullets, likely because longer ones won’t stabilize at such a low velocity. Maybe a 40 or 45 grain bullet would work too? Such variety in loads would lead me to a bolt action or other manual action. Reduced loads in a manual action might also lead me into casting my own. 40 or 50ish grain cast bullets take a 5 lb ingot of lead a long way.

milsurpguy said:

Did some night testing.

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Theres not a lot of room for conversation in this one, but I like how you’re actually out doing something, instead of merely taking about it.

I’m glad you are getting great results!

Hmmm, I have a jug of RE7, and a couple thousand 55gr bullets. I might have to test this. I'll do it with a 10.5 inch AR, and a hybrid 46. Curious if it'll run without the can too. That 10.5 is a horrendous beast, it's my XM177 clone, because I can. With the fake moderator on it (not baffled like original, not willing to pay 800.00 for a real clone moderator that will only reduce 4 DB and still be an NFA item), it shoots about a 5 ft fireball with standard loads.

Stick with your BLC2, Win748, H335, AA2230, etc, and wear ear plugs and electronic ear muffs.

Why deal with a different ZERO, possible functioning issues.

velocity is all 223/5.56 has going for it, why hinder it.

milsurpguy said:

The limit of stability for a 60gr boat tail in say a 1/9 twist through a silencer is super sonic.

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Have you tried loading them backwards? Seen it done with other calibers with greatly reduced powder charges, to go subsonic.

jmorris said:

Have you tried loading them backwards? Seen it done with other calibers with greatly reduced powder charges, to go subsonic.

View attachment 1003916

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Really? Have you tried this backwards thing?

CMB said:

Really? Have you tried this backwards thing?

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Flying base forward leaves the projectile better stabilized at low rotational speed and velocity, as it’s center of mass is forward.
It also allows expansion with FMJ bullets while hunting when that’s all one can find.

CMB said:

Really? Have you tried this backwards thing?

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I have not. I have shot a little subsonic 308 but they were cast bullets, that were not long and pointy. Other than that I already have lots of .22’s that can shoot subsonic with factory ammunition and many rounds more suitable for subsonic performance.

However, it has been done for more than 100 years. First records I find are for increased penetration.

Some have done it for expansion https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-50-shooting-bullets-backwards/

Some have done it because it occupies more volume in the case than a bullet seated normally, reducing internal volume.

And some have done it so the heavier rear end doesn’t try to pass the lighter tip, just start it that way.

As an aside, remember the “ground breaking” research Hornady did back in 2015 where they found their bullets were melting when fired?

Engineers had already encountered that problem back in the 50’s. There are other factors in the design, like wanting high drag, for the application, heat dispersion, etc but the shape/direction of travel proved to be stable.

Max Faget and Harvey Allen were why the Mercury capsule looked like a reversed bullet.

“It was so obvious,” Faget later recalled. “But believe me, this wasn’t an acceptable solution to most of my colleagues. It was anathema. It was a break with the faith…. But it was the right way to do it.” What Faget loved about the design was its simplicity. For the astronaut to return to Earth, only one event—firing the retro-rockets in the right direction to slow down the craft so it could fall out of orbit—need happen. From then on, a broad, gently curving heat shield would face into the direction of flight…”

https://www.airspacemag.com/space/how-the-spaceship-got-its-shape-137293282/



Thus my curiosity in knowing if the OP had given it a try.

Very interesting